Author Topic: The future of electric Vehicles.  (Read 61001 times)

ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #240 on: June 01, 2018, 11:57:00 PM »
Hey Johndoh, I`m with you on all things diesel. Much rather try to fix something mechanical than electrical. Used to be OK before they miniaturised everything into silicon chips.

Shame to hear about the loss of biodiesel production, assuming that the raw/recycled materials are still available, you could try making your own. A couple of thousand litres per year wouldn`t be too taxing and should provide you with all you need.

Bob

LowGear

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #241 on: June 02, 2018, 06:23:51 PM »
There is some chance that once the electrified motor cars become more of a reality to the ICE people that they'll start coming up with some real innovations.  You know, all those 100 miles per gallon units that were purchased from independent inventors and then put in the giant warehouse of secrets out in the desert.  OK.  It's small chance but it's what I'm reminded of when I read some of the contributions made to this forum.
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ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #242 on: June 02, 2018, 11:29:34 PM »
Hey Lowgear, there is no shortage of conspiracy theories suggesting that big manufacturers and other vested interests own the patents on a great many cool inventions. One of the worst culprits is the US military who simply have to claim that an invention could be used as a weapon by a foreign power for it becomes a state secret. I suspect the US government aren`t the only ones using this tactic.

Bob

BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #243 on: July 04, 2018, 03:59:02 PM »
The only thing that will keep Tesla afloat is the utter irrationality of it's fans; it's clear that automobile production in large volumes is not in their skill set and the losses per model 3 out the door are not sustainable.  The arrogance is entertaining; he should have brought in the best in production expertise from the auto industry. He may have tried and been shunned for the obvious reasons. 

One more stone added to the ever increasing daily load of EMF exposure.  The increase in chronic illness, degenerative neurological diseases in the elderly and autism spectrum in children is already stunning.  Conventional gas and diesel cars are rushing to add more wireless transmitters, digital electronics and switch mode power supplies so that they can keep up with the onslaught.


BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #244 on: July 04, 2018, 06:19:52 PM »
Alas, aluminum foil is utterly transparent to ELF magnetic fields, and only starts to be meaningful in shielding magnetic fields over 1MHz.  Electrical steel (silicon steel) or mu-metals are used for lower frequency magnetic fields and can't be made into fabrics as thickness is required.  A single layer of GOES (grain oriented silicone steel) typically provides only 50% reduction. Multiple insulated layers are used for higher shielding.  Shielding a high power electrical motor to a level needed to allow someone to sit two feet away will be a serious engineering challenge; the cost and weight will be substantial.  Pure DC does not cause problems so the battery issue will have to be addressed by LC filtering of the drawn current down to pure DC. Doable, but again adds weight and cost.

Full blown electrical hypersensitivity will be the far less common outcome.  Disregulation of the endocrine, immune and nervous systems, and toxic injury to the brain from opening the blood-brain barrier have diverse effects that will depend on your genome and epigenetics.  Sitting on top of the battery, right next to a high power electric motor on a VFD is certainly a good stress test for your body.

Toxic injury to the brain is no fun. Every aspect of your quality and joy of life will be greatly diminished. 

mikenash

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #245 on: July 04, 2018, 07:19:56 PM »
The motor industry doesn't have large scale "middle ground market" players who are independent

You have Corollas as cheap cars and Rolls-Royces as expensive cars

In the middle - at Tesla price-point - you have the top half of Audis, you have Lexus, you have the middle of the Mercedes-Benz range, you might have the cheapest third of Porsche . . .

But these are all part of monster manufacturers, none "independent" like Tesla

The closest comparison might be the now Indian-owned Jaguar which is now certainly making better cars than it ever did in British ownership - but Jaguar has badge cred . . .

Tesla will survive if it can manage "scale", or if it gets into bed with a bigger company, or if it has a continuing willingness to absorb losses

BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #246 on: July 05, 2018, 01:25:03 AM »
"Seems like that could be a good way to Take down EV enthusiasm. Start a Public awareness campaign and let social media do the rest."
Not likely.  The power industry has spent hundreds of millions on cigarette science, and the WHO is loaded with industry insiders.  It's pretty outrageous-  Andrew Marino book covers it fairly well. Other absurd references to various bogus standards based on industry denial.

"I note the Jag Ipace is DC Permanent Magnet motors.  Don't know if they are just DC or 3 phase which would seem likely and there would be a controller throwing out or causing EMF. If they are straight DC, Then they have the Kryptonite to dispatch Tesla."
Nope, there really is no such thing as DC in the operation of a motor; all electric motors depend on either electronic or mechanical commutation or alternation of current.  It is true that with special attention to design, stray magnetic fields could be reduced substantially.  It's just not even a design issue now.  A good example is your home refrigerator -freezer.  The compressor motor is typically NOT a significant stray field producer; it's field will fall off to below 0.008 milligaus (8 microgaus)  in about 4 feet or so.  The small fan for the compressor coils is also not a major source. But the lousy open frame motor used to blow the freezer air down into the refrigerator is a nasty bastard and typically affects a radius of 24 feet to the same 0.008 milligaus. 

The urge to deny any potential problems and remove liability by large corporations is an overwhelming force.  Pity, because it just isn't that hard to reduce home EMF levels a hundredfold or two orders of magnitude.


buickanddeere

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #247 on: July 06, 2018, 06:12:08 PM »
One of the two provinces in Canada that gave tax payer’s money to EV users is ending the subsidy. Ontario voters decided they did not want to give $9500-$14,000BEV and hybrid purchasers .
  Just leaves British Columbia iirc to try and make a mass market where none exists . Why purchase a $52,000 Bolt when $23,000 will bring home the same vehicle with the Sonic nameplate .

LowGear

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #248 on: July 07, 2018, 05:17:38 PM »
My much cherished green publications report that 2019 is going to be "The Year".  Get ready.

I too; am worried about Elon.  What an extraordinary person.  What a disruptive force to deal with.  What fun to watch a "B" movie in real life.

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BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #249 on: July 07, 2018, 05:59:13 PM »
What's with "globull warming", Glort?  Do you actually doubt the scientific consensus or are you just reacting out of frustration for green party incompetence in Australia?

BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #250 on: July 08, 2018, 03:10:02 AM »
The corruption of science by wealthy and corporate interests, and the spinning of propaganda by governments has made many people entirely distrustful of any science.  The oil and gas industries/owners have bought themselves many years of profits by sowing doubts just like yours, and I'm sorry to see them be as successful as they are.

In the case of rising CO2 levels,  among the scientists who work in this field, there is a super-majority beyond which there is no higher level possible with humans involved. I know how difficult this is since I worked in a military research lab with about 30 PhDs . Our larger organization had hundreds of PHD's. Getting a small group of PhDs to agree on anything was virtually impossible.

When you think that you know about a field of science in which people have spent their entire academic lives working in,  this is likely the result of the Dunning-Kruger effect which has been extremely well confirmed as an inherent human trait. You often see it in PhD's ruminating about fields outside there own field.  We are all susceptible.

I don't trust governments or scientists in general, and have a distrust of my own brain damaged intellect. In this case, having looked more closely at the CO2 data and the subsequent ocean temperature and arctic ice loss confirmations by NASA, it's pretty damned obvious the scientific consensus is warranted and we're in serious trouble.  Scientists get ridiculed and attacked within their own ranks for making exaggerated statements- so they intentionally understate and avoid grandstanding.  Some have expressed the situation in terms like "possible extinction event".  They just don't know what will happen to the worlds ecosystem balance as CO2 levels rise above those estimated for our current epoch, and they are very concerned.  They are concerned that by doing nothing, we may bring about our extinction.  While I'm not a huge fan of humans, I don't know of any better sentient beings, and I think we should try to use the best science available to guide us. 










mikenash

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #251 on: July 08, 2018, 05:09:32 AM »
Bruce M says:

" . . . I don't know of any better sentient beings, and I think we should try to use the best science available to guide us . . ."

And I say  +1

mike90045

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #252 on: July 08, 2018, 06:34:15 AM »
So, does burning fossil fuel raise Co2, or chopping down forests and burning them to clear land, increase Co2. 
How about a month long volcanic eruption? (I guess that has some cooling aerosols too)

So many factors, different models that never converge, and raw data needing to be "processed" before it can be used.  And the largest factor, solar variability.

I'm quite skeptical myself, predicted cooling in the 70's , freon eating the ozone layer,  magnetic poles weakening and moving, dire warnings of warming. 

dieselspanner

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #253 on: July 08, 2018, 08:00:31 AM »
I don't know either, however should we not take the action that may be needed then we'll regret it far more that trying to save a planet that was doing alright on it's own...............

Cheers Stef
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BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #254 on: July 08, 2018, 04:33:38 PM »
All the skepticism Mike90045 raises are specifically from the program of misinformation funded by the Koch brothers and their program of using their inheritance tax avoiding foundation interest money to fund a political agenda for their increased personal and corporate profits.  ''Dark Money'' is a depressing but eye opening book about how they and others have gone about this, with amazing success. 

Freon was phased out worldwide to address the ozone problem, with global cooperation, and the result was that the problem was arrested and is now reversing (the molecules last 20-100 years). This is an example of taking action on the best scientific data, and having it work. Not the other way around.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/06/ozone-layer-mend-thanks-chemical-ban

None of the theories such as predictions of another ice age were in any way a consensus of the field. They were the musing of a few individuals based on some evidence of a repeating pattern of ice ages.  Using this type of distortion of science to confuse and delay action on CO2 is exactly the mission of the Kochs, and it has been highly effective in the US.