Author Topic: The future of electric Vehicles.  (Read 61050 times)

mikenash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #210 on: May 24, 2018, 02:12:02 AM »
here in Australasia this is an option

https://www.mmnz.co.nz/vehicles/outlander-phev/

My neighbour commutes in one of these every day.  It's a company car.  Her round-trip is 46 Ks.  the Mitsubishi claims 54Ks range and that must be close as she never runs out of charge.  Her commute is 2Ks up and down a winding gravel farm track, 10Ks of country road (3rd gear in my Camry) and the rest highway with a couple of Ks of town at the end

She plugs it in every day at work and never puts any petrol in it - I figure the gas has probably gone stale by now

She has been driving it for maybe three or four years with zero issues.  One of them as a secondhand car might be an OK deal if you had a commute of that size

There are about 45 of them on TradeMe right now $26-35K depending on age/Ks etc

mikenash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #211 on: May 24, 2018, 08:39:44 AM »
IMHO the tech curve is both climbing & steepening

Remember this?

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2016/07/flying-around-the-world-in-a-solar-powered-plane/493085/

Sure, slow, expensive and fragile, but powered just by the sunlight on its wings

At the other end of the scale - this fellow just shaved 20 secs off it's own lap record to lap the Nurburgring in 6 and a half minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcepG9Twa_8

Faster than any Porsche, Lamborghini, mad Nissan . . .

I suspect we're just beginning to see the edge of future energy achievements.  Maybe not in my lifetime, but . . .


BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #212 on: May 24, 2018, 04:50:21 PM »
Free used veggie oil is unbeatable in cost and renewable green star points.   :D
 

AdeV

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #213 on: May 24, 2018, 08:31:37 PM »
Hey Glort, have you heard of "black diesel"? 3/4 used motor oil, 1/4 regular unleaded petrol (gas) if I recall correctly...

Won't get you any green points, but it might make your local mechanics very happy bunnies, if they don't have to pay to dispose of their waste oil any more...
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #214 on: May 25, 2018, 02:44:18 AM »
Helga's yellow looks great in that photo! My 1985 300D is still looking pretty good inside and out, and still has the original paint. It's a bit faded but beige fades towards white gracefully.




mikenash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #215 on: May 29, 2018, 11:56:09 PM »
All you need is a Chevy Volt, Glort.  That's right, the Volt.  You get the 40 mile (64 KM) 100% EV range you really need, and the unlimited petrol range after that.  Charge the battery on your home PV most of the time and use nothing but battery for 90% of your driving. Because of your great work on your bargain PV system, you'll likely be one of the few who really does save money via EV.

This topic of:   electric cars/the future/ adequate power generation/advancing tech  - we have talked about it lots and there are many different viewpoints . . .

But it continues to interest me

There was a motoring industry chap on the radio this morning talking about the age of our fleet; and his words prompted me to go look at some numbers:

In our small country of NZ we register about 8500 new cars every month on average

If every one of those was an electric car it would still take 25 years to replace the whole national fleet of passenger cars

Our electricity use has been more-or-less static (sometimes declining slightly) over the last decade and we have surplus capacity (a lot of the times out windmills are braked and "turned off" as the hydro lakes are full)

I can't help thinking that with advancing tech and some smart decisions, a big electric fleet over the next, say, thirty years is probably do-able

just my $0.02

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #216 on: May 30, 2018, 12:20:19 AM »
Hi Mike, I think that in any country with a surplus of renewable energy electric vehicles make perfect sense. Most people only us their personal transport to commute short distances to work, schools, shops & etc. so range is not a huge factor. Cost however is a big deal, why would anyone in their right mind pay a lot more money for a vehicle that won`t do what its predecessor did and will probably need a new battery pack in five years time?

Bob

mikenash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #217 on: May 30, 2018, 12:44:29 AM »
Good solid points, Bob, and I think probably the answers are multi-faceted?

Firstly, I would think a forward-thinking and enlightened government (and, no, I don't know where we're going to find one of those either) would have been buying EVs exclusively for its own fleet and obliging Local Bodies to do the same - starting about five years ago - we would already be enjoying he benefits of the three-year-rollover of vehicles into the national second-hand fleet/pool if that were the case.  I think we are considering these moves now-ish . . . so in another few years . . .

Batteries?  I think the conventional wisdom is about 12 years life (with substantially reduced range for the last couple of these)  BUT we are already seeing market forces at work as aftermarket players begin to supply battery packs for the Nissan Leaf - and I guess others will follow.  Costs might be in the order of $4K landed as opposed to estimates of $7-12K as OE parts

On that basis, with a "fuel" cost around $0.02 a kilometre and "maintenance" around $0.01 a kilometre (depending on who you believe) buying a, say, $20K car as a five or ten-year proposition makes a lot of sense

IMHO it will be interesting to watch as market forces do unexpected things in this area, and as petrol costs and taxes change over time, and as tech advances change the market too

Cheers

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #218 on: May 30, 2018, 12:54:19 AM »
I think that finding an enlightened forward thinking government is about as likely as finding fairies at the bottom of the garden.
Much more likely that market forces and advertising will dictate the direction we go in.
Bob

LowGear

  • Casey
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2130
  • What? My diesel had fries for lunch?
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #219 on: May 30, 2018, 06:19:47 PM »
Systems people!  Whenever you modify one part of a system don't expect the other segments to remain the same.  The propaganda I see suggests that more and more vehicles just aren't going to have ICE power.  As selection opportunities evolve so will choices.

It's fun to stand on the sidelines and watch all the mistakes the coaches are making but I'm more interested in your resolutions to solve the problems.  Few will suggest throwing the coaches out of the game.  Governments have been around quite a while.

Best wishes,
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 08:04:48 PM by LowGear »
NPR Tipper/Dump Truck
Kubota BX 2230
Witte BD Generator
SunnyBoy 6000 + SolarWorld 245

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #220 on: May 30, 2018, 11:57:21 PM »
Hey Glort, I stand corrected. Perhaps I have slightly too much faith in government and business, I will try to be more sceptical in future.
Here is an interesting take on how to roll out electric vehicles https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/zipcar-plans-roll-electric-fleet-144740082.html

Bob

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #221 on: May 31, 2018, 12:39:41 AM »
Very interesting link, Bob, thanks. I like the concept.




ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #222 on: May 31, 2018, 09:42:20 AM »
Hey Glort, for once I disagree with you. I think that for city dwellers EVs are the way forward, your average commuter/house wife does not need a vehicle that will be able to drive from Melbourne to Darwin, nor do city dwellers need to be breathing in the toxic emissions from IC engines. They need a simple small vehicle that will get them to work and back and to the supermarket. Perhaps vehicle hire companies can fill the void by hiring out longer range IC vehicles to people planning a long trip.
I still have very severe reservations about the ability of the grid system to power the city EVs, however the idea that generating capacity could be maintained after midnight to charge EVs might have some merit. Cycling generators up and down to meet demand is very inefficient, so having a heavy night time load may make economic sense.
Bob

LowGear

  • Casey
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2130
  • What? My diesel had fries for lunch?
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #223 on: May 31, 2018, 06:59:48 PM »
The temporary car rental (is that redundant?) system is intriguing.  I'm thinking it'll be a lot easier for the less ownership minded folks in our economies than me.  I've watched a couple of articles about the rejection - vandalism the scooter ride share companies are facing in San Francisco.  Cars should be different as they aren't as scary to the sidewalk patrons. 

The two electric cars I driven were a nice ride.  The smaller ones that interest me the most will fully charge over night.  What a nice way to start out the morning.  Full tank of fuel and no toxic waste transfer stations to deal with or should I write gas stations. ;)



NPR Tipper/Dump Truck
Kubota BX 2230
Witte BD Generator
SunnyBoy 6000 + SolarWorld 245

buickanddeere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
    • View Profile
Re: The future of electric Vehicles. Build cost?
« Reply #224 on: May 31, 2018, 09:06:23 PM »
Has anyone found access to what it costs GM to build a Bolt vs a Sonic ? Or a Volt vs a Cruze ? Then there is “cost “. Wages for the day, materials and amortized wear on the rolling . Or all in considering engineering, legal, advertising , pensions and the actual build price .