Author Topic: The future of electric Vehicles.  (Read 15341 times)

ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2018, 06:06:39 AM »
Here is that research link https://e360.yale.edu/features/using_co2_to_make_fuel_a_long_shot_for_green_energy

I also went out to spend some money today. Sadly my debit card wouldn`t work. Went to the bank and complained. Turns out some f**kwit has been trying to hack my bank account details. The bank decided the safest thing to do was to disable my cards without informing me, they did this at 07:00 hrs on Sunday morning. I will now have to wait a week for replacements.
Very glad I wasn`t on holiday in Bali when this happened. Sh1t creek no paddle and no f`ing canoe.

Grumpy Bob

glort

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2018, 12:22:55 PM »

I think 2 things come out of that article:

1. Making an oil replacement is not cheap,

2. The amount required is astronomical.

Seems there are plenty of ways to do it, none possible at the cost of oil and none that can be effectively scaled to the amount required even if it were cheap.

What I read about growing fuel was you'd have to cover a really big chunk of all the oceans to get enough.  There is always some article about a new hope or breakthrough but but 99.9% of the time they are just hype to attract investors or get gubbermint grants or the like for something they know doesn't really have a hope in hell. Keep people in a job till the grants or investment money runs out.  gets people's names in the media and gives Journos something to write about and keep the sheeple hopeful as well.

There is always a new engine around the corner that is more powerful, economical, lighter and cheaper to produce but there has only been one new engine come along in 50 + years and I think they have stopped making that now due to emissions, lack of economy and possibly Noise.
I'll believe in the next one when I see it sitting in the showroom.

They keep going on about Hydrogen as a fuel but I don't know why? There are more problems with that than enough in transport, capacity, Piping and other things, not to mention it's not a fuel in the first place, it's an energy storage medium that for practical purposes needs to be manufactured. Can't pull that out the air either.

I have a theroy/ belief with fossil fuels:
They will never be replaced and nothing will ever be " Found" to replace them until such time as there is not enough to go round and the oil companies are loosing money by not being able to charge anymore for what they have and profits falling.

No Business, especially a mega one, is going to walk away from it's existing infrastructure, spend untold billions on setting up another system UNLESS it can make more money than it did before. Anyone that thinks they will do it to save the planet or any other lofty idea is severly ignorant to the ways of capitalism and the fundamentals of global business operations.

When the oil does start to run out and the companies can no longer supply enough, there will be a great breakthrough discovery just in the nick of time.
I'll bet my arse it will be some basic thing they knew for the last 100 years but there will be some excuse of it being forgotten or technology wasn't viable or some other rubbish.

In other words, they could do it now but they just don't want to spend the money whichever they don't have to.


I had the same problem a few years ago with the CC and I was on Holiday.
Got to the airport and discovered  card wasn't working. Panicked call to the bank who confirmed it had been stopped due to suspicious activity. Turned out the suspicious activity was our pre holiday purchases.  Took them 24 hours to re-instate it but what a pain in the butt.  Had plenty of money in a savings account but the single brain celled woman at Auckland airport would not accept that and their wasn't a high enough limit on other cards for the deposit and the hire fee. She would not take 2 cards to split the money which we found out later when we returned the car, was perfectly fine. Luckily, friend had flown in and came and gave them his CC which robot girl was happy with.

If ever there was a Dumb Bit... cow I wanted to slap clean across the room, it was this one.  No matter how many times you explained things to her, she looked blankly and asked you for another card after we had told her at least 8 times we didn't have another credit card with enough on it. I had low limits purposefully set and had the no limit on the one they had stopped.  Aggghhh!

As it turned out, when we took the car back, the area manager for the chain was the one that served me. They couldn't find the paperwork which was no surprise and I did not hold back in ( politely but strongly) telling her what I thought of their employee.  I think the comment that I was glad she worked for them and not my business because my business couldn't survive and anchor like her pulling it down and destroying the good will and reputation I had worked hard for with my clients struck a chord by the look on the managers face. 

I told her this while the dunderhead was 3 ft away and she did not flinch, proving robots have no emotion.
We got on the shuttle bus and before it left, manager came on, apologised profusely again and said they had reversed the charge on friend's credit card and our hire was complimentary.  That was an unexpected twist!
Bit of a complication too as we had already fixed him up for the hire charge so he wouldn't be short on his holiday.

By the next morning, CC had  been restored, bank had called and emailed to let us know, reset password and the rest of the trip was far more stress free.  Not sure we used the thing then anyway.

We went to Cairns in November and as we were walking through the airport from the return flight, phone rang with the bank telling us CC had been stopped due to fraudulent activity overseas.
Last thing it was used for was to pay for the hire car  day before ( Bloody cars and holidays again!!)  and I was a bit sus on that at the time.
They had the CC obviously for the bond but after we dropped the car off, about 2 hours later guy rang and said he forgot to get the card to charge us. I said they already had the card on file but he reckoned he couldn't access it. Didn't think much and gave him the number but later thought it didn't feel right but probably just my paranoia.  Was definitely the guy at the rental place so didn't worry. May have been nothing to do with him though gut instinct tells me otherwise.

Anyway, same thing, wait for another card to arrive and carry on.
Stuffed up all my online shopping though. Had to put the new number into everything. Pain in the butt.

Got the 3rd degree off my father the other night.
Was complaining he had to go through all this drama a with a business licence online and couln't figure it out and would wait for me to come up and sort it for him.  While I'm talking to him I log onto his email and read the notice and tell him all he has to do is pay for it with a CC number. He wanted to know how I could see it. I said I set up your email remember and I kept the details for when you forget or bugger something up. He seemed a bit wary so I told him I don't bother looking at it much, you never get any discount coupons from the strip club so no use to me.

 He said OK, when you come up I'll get you to pay this for me.  We were talking a bit and I paid for the thing as we spoke and said your licence is all fixed up, I just paid for it and got the receipt number. He asked how much so he could reimburse me. I said I paid for it with your credit card so no problem.  Then he wanted to know how I had his CC number and I rattled off all the things he had asked me to buy or pay for him online before and he always had to go get the damn magnifying glass to read the numbers to me so I wrote that down and put it away too.

I then got told in stern tones " Don't you go buying stuff on it then".  FFS!
I said too late, they deliver the new Ferrari tomorrow I paid for on your card but I'll come up and give you a ride in it. One day.

Geez, no trust,  no gratitude and no taking you for a responsible adult rather than the 12 yo kid you were when you left home!
I'm sure he still thinks of me as a child!
Never a problem with trusting me when he gets sick and I have to take off up there and run the business for him at the drop of a hat.
Makes more damn money when I'm there as well!  >:(

LowGear

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2018, 04:54:30 PM »
My turn.

Electric cars are neat.

Yup.  That's it.

Cheers,
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ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2018, 10:38:44 PM »
Thanks for reminding me that all my online services will need to have the CC number edited. What a pain in the ar*e that`s going to be. I  wonder how many passwords I`m going to have forgotten.
Strange thing is that the suspicious activity the bank flagged was someone PAYING me 43 dollars and some change! Doesn`t sound like the actions of a criminal mastermind.

I agree that electric cars are cool and probably an ideal way of reducing air pollution in built up areas. For those of us that live rurally and have to travel long distances they are completely impractical.

AdeV

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2018, 10:45:07 PM »
The problem is that whatever fuel you are burning there is only a finite amount available once you have burned it it`s gone for good.

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. Coal - sure, definitely. Oil, however... well, the Japanese have proven that there are algae out there which eat CO2 & energy (ideally light, but heat will do) and shit out crude oil. I read, somewhere (can't remember where) that some formerly dry oil wells have, in fact, been found to have some oil in them again.

What is true, is at our present rate of extraction, there will come a day when effectively all of the earth's accessible (or, rather, known AND accessible) oil reserves will be consumed, and even if some are replenished by natural processes, it certainly isn't going to be fast enough. Plant-based alternatives are OK, but simply put we don't have enough space to grow the crops to produce the yields necessary to cover all oil consumption, even if that were possible (which, as glort points out, is highly unlikely at best). Well, maybe we could, but then there's no space left over to grow stuff to eat.

So... where do we go from here? Solar & wind could help reduce oil/gas consumption, but they'll never replace it completely. Nuclear would seem to be the most viable option for the short term - at least to cover the base load currently covered with coal/oil/gas. Unless someone finds a way to store the energy from solar/wind when it's not wanted & can be released back into the grid when it IS needed, then we'll need rapid reacting gas turbine power to keep or grids stable.

Personally, I think they should use surplus wind/solar to generate H2, which can either be pushed through hydrogen fuel cells, or even burnt in a generator (gas turbine or reciprocating, whatever works best); that at least allows solar/wind output to be levelised and made much more predictable (higher than predicted, store any excess; lower than predicted, burn into your store to supplement). H2 has the advantage of producing very little additional pollution when burnt (only waste heat).


It's all moot anyway. The plants are LOVING the extra CO2 that's in the air. So the odd polar bear gets it in the neck, it's all terribly sad, but lets face it - if Antarctica melts, there's a whole new landmass just waiting to be turned into a gigantic farm to feed the world (and the rising sea levels will have killed off anyone careless enough to live by the sea, so there'll be less mouths to feed as well! Perfect for a new low-oil economy...

... so I got in my planet destroying car and went to blow some more cash on light fittings.....

I hope you tweaked the "injector output" knob I'm sure you have under the dash, for that "extra black smoke" effect?  :laugh:

I drive a 4 litre supercharged Jaguar XJR about the place (20mpg *at best*). I'm just trying to feed the plants, that's all, and offset all of those damn Priuses!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 10:51:43 PM by AdeV »
Cheers!
Ade.
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ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2018, 11:36:02 PM »
You make a good point about solar and wind generation. The problem is that the sun doesn`t shine 24 hours a day so storage for use at night is essential. Battery storage works but is bulky and expensive and has only a short life expectancy. Pumped hydro is a possibility but the costs are astronomical. Nuclear has very nasty long term consequences which we are not technologically advanced enough to overcome. Experiments into the feasibility of fusion reactors are producing good results but a working prototype is probably fifteen years or more away.

Has anyone considered the idea of a world power grid that would transmit solar generated power from the sunny side of the planet to those on the dark side? Nice idea but probably too expensive and would require global cooperation.

Bob

mike90045

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2018, 02:02:10 AM »
...
Has anyone considered the idea of a world power grid that would transmit solar generated power from the sunny side of the planet to those on the dark side? Nice idea but probably too expensive and would require global cooperation.    Bob


Giant orbital mirrors !

ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2018, 03:18:50 AM »
...



Giant orbital mirrors !
Great idea, until you realise that some stupid SOB would weaponize them and use them to fry countries which didn`t share the same point of view.

There has also been talk of solar shades being shot into orbit to reduce global warming. Great if you live near the equator and want to drop the summer temperature a bit. Totally rubbish idea if your an eskimo.

glort

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2018, 10:09:49 AM »

Has anyone considered the idea of a world power grid that would transmit solar generated power from the sunny side of the planet to those on the dark side? Nice idea but probably too expensive and would require global cooperation.


Can you imagine the size of the cables going to feed an entire country not to mention the distribution network required to get it into the grid when it got there?

I know how thick the cables need to be just to feed my puny solar setup back to the house mains. Multiply that by a million or so...... Hooee!
You'd be lucky to load 10km worth onto a ship before the weight sank the thing!   

It's a mamoth problem and we might have to wait till the Aliens arrive to share their tech with us to solve the problem.
Of course being what mankind is, we'll probably shoot them down or blow them up before they have chance to say "G'day!"


glort

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2018, 11:04:52 AM »


It's all moot anyway. The plants are LOVING the extra CO2 that's in the air.

 but lets face it - if Antarctica melts, there's a whole new landmass just waiting to be turned into a gigantic farm to feed the world (and the rising sea levels will have killed off anyone careless enough to live by the sea,

I stirred up an environmental zealot on a greenwashed DIY site a little while ago with much the same sort of statements.

Said I didn't get what the green washed were so worried about Co2 for when they were always banging on about more trees. I pointed out they add Co2 in greenhouses to make plants grow faster and flourish. Plants breathe C02 and greenhouses are typically held at twice the normal atmospheric level so up to that point, the more co2 The better the tress will grow.

Didn't that send the guy into a flat spin. You reckon my rants are long....   :laugh:

Also said that globull warming is good. Again, greenhouses are warmed up to make the plants grow. If the ice caps melted there would be more water around and we wouldn't have to concern ourselves with " Saving" it anymore.

Guy went positively into orbit.  Think the names he was calling me were supposed to be insulting but I was laughing too hard reading his reply as he had a complete meltdown to care.  ;D

I didn't get much of a reply to my question to him about what were we saving water from?
Extinction? Famine? Bad hair day? 
Think he had a heart attack after seeing that or his keyboard had caught fire from his feverish typing of the last replys. 


... so I got in my planet destroying car and went to blow some more cash on light fittings.....

Quote
I hope you tweaked the "injector output" knob I'm sure you have under the dash, for that "extra black smoke" effect?  :laugh:

Oh come on Ade, what do you take me for?  I'd never do that!
Can't, injector pump is mechanical, not electronic so it has to be ajusted on the pump manually.

......Which is a real pain in the arse so I have the thing set where I can feel the extra weight of another spring I added to tell me after that, any thing less than full boost is going to do a James Bond getaway effect out the exhaust.

I do have to say though, it is SOOOO effective when you get those pelicans that want to sit right up your nether regions.
Change into top, push the pedal right down and they dissappear. when they reappear, they stay a good way back and a dad on the pedal if they get too close again soon has them retreating to a respectable distance.

[/quote]I drive a 4 litre supercharged Jaguar XJR about the place (20mpg *at best*). I'm just trying to feed the plants, that's all, and offset all of those damn Priuses!
[/quote]

Mate had a supercharged Range Rover.
Fuel consumption of a 747 on take off but man that thing had the best sounding engine and exhaust I ever heard with just that touch of blower wine to make it sound truly intimidating. 

Nicest, plushest, seats I have ever seen even in a lounge room and the sound system really was better than being in a concert hall.

Got to have some consolation for a stone smashing a headlight at a road works and finding out a replacement was $3500!!


AdeV

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2018, 07:44:36 PM »

Can you imagine the size of the cables going to feed an entire country not to mention the distribution network required to get it into the grid when it got there?

I know how thick the cables need to be just to feed my puny solar setup back to the house mains. Multiply that by a million or so...... Hooee!
You'd be lucky to load 10km worth onto a ship before the weight sank the thing!   


It's not _quite_ as bad as you think... the trick is to use high voltage AC, as most national grids do. The conductors are still quite chunky, but nothing like the sort of chunk you'd need to send big DC voltage around.

The flip side of this, of course, is the losses become significant with long distance. Getting power from Australia to the UK, for example, you'd lose most of it (I hesitate to say 99%, but I bet it'd be around that) in transmission losses - aka heat.

That said, when you look at some of the stuff technology is coming up with these days, I think there are technologies which will knock solar and wind, and possibly even some traditional generation, into a cocked hat. My favourite is the molybdenum disulphide nanopore membrane - partly because it sounds cool, but also because it can generate some pretty spectacular amounts of energy - they reckon around 1 megawatt per square meter of material (!) And all you need (other than this fancy membrane) is a steady supply of salty water, and a steady supply of freshwater. So basically any river delta/estuary then.

Here's a typical article about the stuff: https://futurism.com/new-power-generation-system-membranes-will-only-be-three-atoms-thick/

Biggest problem I've seen mentioned with it, is making the actual nanopores. They can do it; but can they do it on an industrial scale? That remains to be seen... Also, if it's only 3 atoms thick, how big is the smallest fish that will simply swim straight through it...?

Even so. One megawatt per m2 - that means your typical reasonably sized river estuary could potentially provide gigawatts of power, in a relatively compact space/size, continuously day & night. You're not even desalinating the ocean or polluting the river water; you're just mixing them a little more thoroughly a little closer to the delta than would happen naturally.

Of course, some greenist will be along soon to tell us why osmotic power is A Bad Thing For The Environment. They'll probably latch onto "molybdenum", because it sounds a bit funny. Or disulphide (disulfide) because it sounds even more dangerous. Sulphide? Isn't that like Sulphur? Like as in sulphuric acid! Noooo! Run for the hills!
Cheers!
Ade.
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BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2018, 08:20:20 PM »
Looks interesting but technical content is absent.  Achieving large pressures across a 3 atom membrane seems a tad challenging on a substantial scale- we are talking literally hydro dam pressures AND FLOW RATE created in membrane units; the sun may be in it's expansion phase before this happens.

 

AdeV

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2018, 08:25:57 PM »
There IS a proper scientific article out there somewhere, I just can't spot it right now.

Actually, cancel that, there's links off this article: https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/nanogenerator-helps-turn-the-tide-on-blue-energy/1010066.article
Cheers!
Ade.
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ajaffa1

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2018, 08:56:50 PM »
I knew there had to be a snag, apparently river water is too dirty and would block up the Nano pores in the membrane. Filtration of an entire river could prove challenging.
What about using all that lovely clean water melting off the icecaps? Finally a positive use for global warming!

BruceM

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Re: The future of electric Vehicles.
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2018, 10:40:55 PM »
More detail and more interesting.  Thanks AdeV!  The only problem with this sort of gushing journalism on lab results is that most people then think magical technical solutions are nearly here, and thus avoid doing what should be done today.

It reminds me of the technical pitch about methods for nuclear waste disposal present in engineering school in 1975.  They said it was only a political problem, to pick from the many good methods available, and we covered 8 of the top contenders.  Oh boy, did that every turn out to be wildly technically naive.... it's 0/8 after billion$ and43 years later.  The current plan wasn't even in the list- because it is/was so obviously unsafe.  Don't worry, a good solution is right around the corner...and we did in fact count on that, which was dead wrong.

Denial is a  marvelous thing-  I take a big tablespoon every morning as I say to myself that "I'm OK" - when in fact, my health is unstable and declining.