Author Topic: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset  (Read 1809 times)

kdct

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Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« on: March 07, 2018, 02:35:57 PM »
Hello,
I received my 16-2 in January 2011 and didn't get everything finally assembled, tested and balanced until December 2013, and then finishing the shed was summer 2014. It runs well now, with little vibration. There is about 1-1/2 pounds of stick on weights on each flywheel. That was using the chalk method, holding it about 20-30 degrees above the horizontal to target side to side vibration about 2:1 over vertical vibration.

The light springs on the fuel pump rack eliminate all the slop in the linkage and response is instant. Getting rid of the sliding-in-a-tube link at the fuel pump and replacing it with a short connecting rod eliminates any possibility of binding. The cooling works well and because we are in snow country it needs anti-freeze. All the pipes and baseboard heater elements plus engine water jacket add up to about 9 gallons and there are 3 more in the milk can. All of the dozens (seemed like hundreds) of starts I did for the balancing was by crank without the generator connected. After the generator was connected and during the cold weather, I found out I couldn't start it by hand. Then I had to add the rubber wheel starter using a '59 Thunderbird starter and a simple thumb switch. I have to crank it by hand first to get it moving then pull the rubber roller onto the flywheel and then get to smell the rubber and paint burn until it gets up to speed.

There are more pictures here www.foremostengineering.com/house/lister/pics/upload/lister_16-2.htm







veggie

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2018, 04:09:36 PM »
welcome !

And congrats on a very nice Listeroid system.

Looks like the engine is mounted on a separate concrete pad.?
If so, how deep into the ground does the pad extend?

 :)
Veggie
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 04:17:03 PM by veggie »
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kdct

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2018, 06:29:41 PM »
Thanks. It is sitting on a sandwich of pressure treated 4x6s with p.t. 2x10s screwed to the top and bottoms, so it is 6.5" total thickness. Then there are 2 more layers of 2x10s on top for a spacer to raise it up so the crank has clearance to the shed floor. The mounting bolts go all the way through into nut plates on the bottom. It just sits in a 3" deep depression in the dirt. The first time I started it, I thought it would shake the generator to pieces. Originally I made an over-center hinge mount for the generator so that gravity would apply belt tension. The vibration made it bounce all over the place. Then I drilled about twenty 1/2" holes through the pad all around the edges and pounded two foot long pieces of rebar through the pad and into the ground. That helped a lot but it was still very shaky. I started balancing with chalk marks and then crayon then pencil. It took about 1-1/2 pounds of Harbor Freight stick on weights on each wheel. I changed the generator to rigid mount with separate idler pulley. Did a lot of experimenting with the governor spring and different preloads and spring rates and dampers. It now has a spring that is very close to the original, a little softer and very little hunting since the springs and connecting rods at the pump racks take all the slop and friction out of the system. I stopped trying to make a nonlinear spring arrangement with bellcranks or something in order to get the governor/RPM response to improve. It is good enough. Under full load it will drop down to 220V from 230V at no load. When the load is suddenly removed it will not hunt above 240V.

38ac

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 06:36:40 PM »
Welcome
Nice set up. I did a similar fuel pump link mod on a 25-2 and it does indeed help with governor response.  I used a roller chain master link for mine,cant remember the size.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

glort

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 08:51:26 PM »

Very nice setup!

1.5 Lbs of weight on each flywheel is a LOT of stick on Weights!
How the hell they let these things out the door like that? I know not all standards are the same as we expect in the west but that engine would have been similar to mine and plainly unusable unless bolted down to a very heavy slab of concrete.

The governor mod is a good one. Seems that is another built in Roid failing.
Thought I had mine sorted but running the thing proved I wasn't as clever as I thought. May be the Punjabi engineers weren't as clever as they should have been.

BruceM

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 11:23:13 PM »
Welcome, KDCT!
A very attractive custom engine shed and setup! The milk can radiator reservoir is a gem.  I enjoyed taking a gander at all your photos.

I remember how long and how many starts are needed to place that about 1.5 lbs on each wheel! I spent an entire afternoon at it.  Your story is another testimony to the effectiveness of the wheel chalking method...first explained here by Mr X over a decade ago. 

I like the use of copper fin tube as a custom convection radiator...haven't seen used ever before, and I like it.

Best Wishes,
Bruce






dieselgman

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 03:20:58 AM »
Thanks for posting! Lots of creative woodwork there, looks like you are pretty good at it! Good to see another finished working project. 7 years is a fairly long-term effort!

dieselgman
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 03:24:33 AM by dieselgman »
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cujet

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 11:00:36 PM »
That's awesome! I'd love to see a video of it running. BTW, I'm totally jealous.

Sadly, I never put my lister 20/2 in a shed, instead I pull it inside the garage when not using it.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

Willw

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2018, 04:53:25 AM »
Welcome aboard KDCT, and thank you for sharing your project with us.
Very interesting...
Daily driver '97 GMC W4 tipper on WVO/Kerosene mix.
6/1 clone standby generator.
Too many projects.

Apogee

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2018, 07:38:55 AM »
Welcome aboard!

AWESOME JOB!!!! :)

Also thanks for sharing.

Kind regards,

Steve


Tom

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2018, 05:32:00 AM »
Welcome, lots of creative ideas there.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

kdct

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2018, 01:30:28 AM »
Looking at 38ac's "The twin build" thread, it looks like I need to work on my gibb key fit and maybe some day add the fuel pump cam oilers. I definitely need to make a guard over the front flywheel and gibb key. When starting, it is very dangerous reaching into the shed to turn the compression release levers, especially when there is ice or water on the ground (which is when the power goes out!).

Some lessons learned the hard way:
1) Don't wrap your thumb around the crank handle opposite the rest of your fingers.
2) When I first got the generator spinning, I wasn't getting any voltage on the output terminals. It had been sitting so long since being shipped, I thought maybe it needed to flash the field, so I tried that. Still nothing. Then I started taking the control box and wiring apart. There was one wire that was a little loose, so fixed that but still nothing. Looked all around inside and at the brushes. measured all the resistance of all the coils. Lots of google searching and reading about AC generators. The little meter on top of the generator showed voltage but I didn't have any at the terminals. I didn't know if the little meter on top was just an indicator of some sort and not really a voltmeter. Then one day I was out running it and switched the digital voltmeter on and selected AC. That's when I noticed I had been turning it onto the 200V AC scale, so it was showing -- instead of 230 or 240. It's a good thing I never touched the connections by accident.
3) With the milk can about 4 feet higher than the engine, after sitting a while, the gaskets on the cylinder blocks would seep coolant. I tried the radiator flake sealer stuff but it didn't help. I had to replace the gaskets on the doors on the sides of the cylinder blocks. They are too close together on the twin to remove the bolts. I had to loosen the bolts enough to cut the heads off, then the other side could be removed. Then use shorter bolts and grind the heads thinner when putting back together. Still seepage at the bottom of the cylinder blocks, so probably also leaking inside too. That was when I added the ball valves at the coolant inlet and outlet. I got lucky and found two large high quality 300 degree ball valves at Harbor Freight on clearance for only $10 each. I had ground out the outlet manifold to fit NAPA 190 degree thermostats. I don't know why, but one day I was doing a short test run and did not open the lower valve on the water inlet. I opened the top valve for some reason, but not the bottom. I was inside the shed fooling with something on the generator and the next thing I knew I was covered with anti-freeze spraying out of the engine. The cylinder block water jacket cracked from the pressure of the water heating and the thermostats must have sealed good.


2Ton46

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2018, 02:28:07 AM »
Welcome!  Very nice setup. I'd say that radiator is the definition of functional art.

dieselspanner

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2018, 08:35:35 AM »
Nice work, it's good to see someone getting around the issues various issues bit by bit.

I've made the same cock up with the multimeter more than once!

It probably wouldn't have helped, as you were running against a closed valve, but I always cut a small 'Vee' in the edge of a thermostat when I fit it.

It may take a little longer to come up to temperature, but you'll have longer to react to the temperature rise should the 'stat fail.

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

dieselgman

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Re: Hello from new member, 16-2 and 10 KW genset
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2018, 02:01:43 PM »
Ouch!, that looks just like a freeze crack. We have ready stock here for replacing that cylinder block.

dieselgman
Ford Powerstroke, Caterpillar 3304, Cummins M11, Too many Listers to count...