Author Topic: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge  (Read 3502 times)

ajaffa1

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Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« on: March 06, 2018, 11:05:39 AM »
At first I thought this was funny, then I realised that as a tax payer in NSW the joke is on me https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/nsw-government-ordered-trains-worth-202120497.html

glort

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 12:31:43 PM »

Why am i not surprised???
Probably too much attention paid to phone charging ports than for someone to take the time to look at the size of the things.

Every ( infrequent) time I go on the eastern suburbs railway that took over 100 years to finish that goes from the City to Bondi, I shit myself. The carriages already run so close to the walls in that long tunnel, its terrifying.

I'm no engineer but most of the tunnels in the city network are 100+ years old. They are brick lined. I can't even begin to imagine the cost of widening them  even 200MM. Most of them have pipes either on the surface or under the face and who knows what else they used to stabilise and support them.

The safety standard thing seems to be the new solution to every inconvenient problem.
Too much radiation from Fukishima in fish, just re do the standard so once what was unthinkable is fine. Too much fecal matter in imported vegetables,  just change or eliminate the standard. Anything gets too bad, don't test for it at all and then you can say you never found anything wrong... hard to find something you were paying no attention to!
Trains don't have enough clearance, just reduce the required margin so they " Shouldn't touch" when they pass. God help the day they go a bit quicker than usual or are more loaded and sway a bit further when they meet at the apex of a bend.

It's just incredible that all the time saftey regulations are being made tighter and tighter and we are being made into a nanny state more and more every day EXCEPT when it comes to the Gubberment  having to spend money and then it's OK to relax standards that were thought to be needed before safety was ever invented as a word let alone a preoccupation.

Lets see the Pollies start riding round in cheap arse Korean cars that don't meet Oz safety standards and see how that goes down. Don't matter if they crumple like a used franger if you hit a pigeon on the road, they are cheap right?

There was a very infamous train disaster here about 40 years ago called the Granville train disaster. I think the final death toll was about 84. My uncle nearly made it 85 but thankfully pulled through and only died  in his sleep 2 years back. Was in hospital for months though.
That was caused by the train going wide on a turn and clipping the bridge support brining it down on top of the following carriages.

Get ready for Granville II, the sequel, coming to a Sydney station near you. maybe ALL the sydney stations!.
They mention tunnels but what about the platforms? Some of the trains don't clear them by 20 Cm.  As a lot of stations taper down at the ends, I can see a train catching one and rolling into the station on it's side like a  stunt at half time at the demolition derby.
At least the people can charge their phones while they wait for the rescuers to get the bodies off them and cut them free.  ::)

Wonder what that will cost the tax payers when there is a class action for wrongful death when it is clearly and without doubt shown they knew the things were too wide before they were even built.


ajaffa1

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 09:11:39 PM »
Sounds like a communist plot to me.

Vladimir: Comrade Bruce I want you to go and buy trains that won`t work, here`s 3 billion quid.
                                                                 
                                                           A week later

Vladimir: Comrade Bruce how did you get on?
Bruce: Very well comrade Vladimir, I bought trains that are too wide for the tunnels.
Vladimir: Good work Bruce, how much did it cost?
Bruce: Sadly they would only take 2.5 billion so I sent the balance to North Korea.
Vladimir: Well done, I`ll contact our man in parliament house and get it all approved. I want you to get on the phone and see if you can get the manufacturer to change the gauge of the wheels, that way they will have to replace all the track as well as the tunnels and platforms.

BruceM

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 10:59:50 PM »
Alas, the problem isn't unique just to government-  large corporations have the same problems.  Basically any large group of humans results in the same thing.  The eventual death of Motorola came as no surprise to me after working for them for a few years and attending their global marketing conference for upper managers...amazing things are done to improve appearances on the next quarterly report...despite the eventual consequences. Ditto for utterly incompetent management at a big military contractor...an entire huge facility built, staffed and closed (leased) in 7 years...I'd guess hundreds of millions lost but can't even think in numbers that big.

The problem we face is that we must continue to have humans "in charge", and most have already risen to their level of incompetency.  Ignorance and greed are the traits you can really count on, anything else is a fluke.

 

EdDee

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 07:41:50 AM »
The law of business.... Promote staff to their 1st level of incompetency.....
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Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
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glort

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 07:43:13 AM »

The problem we face is that we must continue to have humans "in charge", and most have already risen to their level of incompetency.  Ignorance and greed are the traits you can really count on, anything else is a fluke.

This is the exact reason I am dead against nuclear reactors.
It's not the technology that is at fault, it's the humans that run the things.
Rhere is ALWAYS going to be some shortcutting of the infallible procedures, some person that wants to make  things look better to the bosses/ shareholders than they really are, someone wants to svae money on doing wok that needs to be done or someone that's too lazy to do the job right  and creates a disaster.

They can go on all they like about the design and procedures but what they can't guarantee is the Human will always to what they should and that it the very weak and dangerous point.

Your experience Bruce was like mine with Kodak. 
They were barely hanging on with their incompetence and stupid  policys and practices before they shot themselves in the foot with Digital creating the very thing that put them out of business.  I went to a managers meetings several times and they asked how they could improve profits. I said loose half your customers because they are costing us money not making it.  They said their own figures agreed but they didn't want to loose market share. I said why not? Let the other guys deal with them and weaken their position and then when they go down we will get them back on OUR profitable terms.
Nup.  Want market share.

 That wasn't ultimately their undoing but it sure hurt them before they properly tied their own noose.
Customers knew, want to get anything out of Kodak and for free, just mention the F word.
Fuji.

Well now they have ZERO market and the other guys are still going well in different markets but still there unlike Kodak which is a trademark and technology licensing little 2 bit company a fraction of it's former glory and prestige.

BruceM

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 05:44:04 PM »
Total absence of rational decision making when staring at clear, unequivocal evidence of very serious problems is an all to common theme for humans.   

It's distressing for those who care about the future collective state of humans.  It's hard to see a way through.

glort

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 08:38:40 PM »
Total absence of rational decision making when staring at clear, unequivocal evidence of very serious problems is an all to common theme for humans. 

So is arse covering and denial despite potential or definite life changing situations and problems.
 Profit rules over all else and there is nothing that won't be done to protect or benefit that.

BruceM

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 10:12:25 PM »
I'm in complete agreement on nuclear power and the human issue with building and operating, though the waste disposal problem is also very real and much hairier than presented to us as young engineers.  Every single one of the methods proposed at that time (1975) has since failed profoundly, such as dilution an mixing with cement or creating a ceramic composite- anything to stabilize the crap so it can be stored in a hole somewhere safely.  They all failed as the radioactive bombardment destroys the structure of anything tried so far. Other ideas were tested and also failed miserably.

There still is no good plan, and the current farce is that barrels of liquid waste will be replaced with new barrels (aka the shell game) before they leak for 10,000+ years, as if stability of government for that duration has ever happened.  At Yucca mtn. in the US, where our depository is supposed to be, specially tagged water was released, and found to show up in area aquifers in only a few years.  They also found it to be on a previously unnoticed fault line.  No worries, we'll just keep stockpiling at the points of use! 

I think a good measure of the rationality of nuclear power as built and operated  are the insurance costs; for nuclear power plants, NO insurance company in the world will insure them.



« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 05:12:07 AM by BruceM »

glort

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 11:46:57 PM »

I'm with you on that too Bruce.
It makes no sense to me to produce the worlds most deadly poison for which there can be no neutralisation, disposal or anything other than just adding to an unsolvable future nightmare.

I completely get the shits with these soin doctors and plain ignorant morons who always come out with some crap about " new" or next generation reactors. won't produce this waste or whatever. Heard it the other week again. Pointed out that this " New" and wonderful soloution has been known about 20 years but not one of these reactors exists because they are too damn expensive to build.

The idiots also talk about new and old reactors and say stupid things like " It can't happen with the new reactors" But fail to acknowledge the old ones with their known and clearly demonstrated faults are not only still in operation, their design life is being extended and even doubled!
Greed, deception and human behaviour at it's typical corporate level.

As a kid I used to see all these protest and think whay a bunch of trouble makers.  As I got older I realised how filthy and corrupt the world and the powers that run it are and more than understand what I thought was a bunch of fanatics are the people that really understood.

I followed that Fukishima disaster and the amount of cover up in that is beyond criminal. It's orse now than ever but instead of making headlines and getting world attention, it's buried and we are distracted from real issues with all sorts of other manufactured crap to divert our attention from the fact we are being slaughtered for profit by big biz and gubbermints.

I think the reality is it is such a disaster and so beyond control, may as well cover it up and let people go about what ever lives they have because we are all probably going to suffer from it and be fked one way or the other.

This is a reason why I think the whole Green/ save the planet environment thing is a complete and utter farce and nothing more than a money spinner.
Forget about C02 and Globull warming, the nuke industry along with many others are killing us and jack ship is being done about it because that would COST big biz and gubbermints, not MAKE them money. When that happens, no one wants to know.

Look at any green/ environmental initiative and you'll find someone profiting big time from it.

There was a story here last week about an airforce base up the coast where all sorts of contaminants have been found around the area and residents around it have been dropping from cancer at about 20X the average rate.  They have found the cause, linked it directly to solvents used with the aircraft and there is no question where it came from.  Gubbermint has just stalled and red taped all class actions and everything else and done nothing to rectify it except not using the product which is no longer made anyway.

Houses around there are available for literally $1000 because no one wants to be there and they certainly can't be sold for any real money.

Kinda makes a defence force a moot point when it's going to kill it's own citizens through it's very existence and operation in the first place.

BruceM

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2018, 12:59:08 AM »
It's really sad that government acts like a big corporation in dealing with it's own citizens and screws them when there is a toxic injury.  You'd think such deep pockets would allow a bit of compassion but it's no different.


« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 05:11:25 AM by BruceM »

BruceM

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 05:23:15 AM »
The US media has been very quiet about Fukishima. Last I read it was still pouring radiation directly into the ocean, and there was no way to deal with much of the source radiation as robot electronics were destroyed in short order by the intense radiation.
From the start there was an appeal by nuclear scientists about the seriousness of the situation that recommended a huge multinational effort to deal with Fukishima and it was ignored.  Humans prefer denial when faced with complexity or difficulty.

glort

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 09:05:15 AM »

I just had a bit of a look on the web about the latest on the situation.
I scared myself. Seriously.

Where there was once a load of denial and downplaying by vested interests, I couldn't even find that now. So apparent it's a disaster 1000 times what the world has ever seen before or has a hope in hell of dealing with, they aren't even trying to gloss it over any more.

To think of it as a local problem is ludicrous.  It's a world wide one beyond doubt and one of the most affected nations apart from Japan is the US.
The world gets bombarded with Bullshit every single day about globull warming and Co2 while the planet and everything on it really is dying at a rate that makes the  Global warming predictions look like slow motion.

The real scary part is this has been going on for 7 years now and it's not only getting measurably worse but statistically more dangerous.  The next earthquake and Tsunami is getting closer every day and when that happens, It literally could be good night for a big chunk of the world and millions of people for decades to come.  the contamination does not go away, it does not get weaker, it can not be removed. It's with us for all intents and purposes, eternity. How in hell we can still be letting these things function is beyond belief.

Sound's dramatic and over the top but the one thing about this you come to realise the more you learn, is that there is nothing that can be said that is over the top about this.  No matter how sensationalist things may sound, the reality is it's probably no where near the horror of what the situation really is.

buickanddeere

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 03:14:25 PM »
The US media has been very quiet about Fukishima. Last I read it was still pouring radiation directly into the ocean, and there was no way to deal with much of the source radiation as robot electronics were destroyed in short order by the intense radiation.
From the start there was an appeal by nuclear scientists about the seriousness of the situation that recommended a huge multinational effort to deal with Fukishima and it was ignored.  Humans prefer denial when faced with complexity or difficulty.

Everything is radioactive . It is just how much . Ever look at the cancer rates of a couple of  particular Japanese cities ? The amount of radiation from Fukushima leaking into the ocean is how much compared to natural occurring potassium 40 ?

LowGear

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Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 05:26:33 PM »
You've got to look out for those cruise missiles armed with natural occurring potassium 40.

Once you start to understand how many people suffer and die because of tobacco, alcohol and sugar every year all over the world you start to understand how innocent war is.

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