Puppeteer

Author Topic: Project Roid  (Read 4912 times)

2Ton46

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2017, 03:24:16 PM »
Unfortunately the plastic is the box that is mounted, it was free.  I don't have a metal one handy that will hold the crank, but I'll keep a lookout for one.  I don't really like the plastic either, but it is better than nothing, and might look a lot better with some paint.

https://youtu.be/0mcco8VgcTg

This should be the link to the short video of the project.

I certainly understand the keep it simple aspect. I'd probably do things a little different if it was my only and primary power source.

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2017, 04:22:23 PM »
Yup, that's what happens on a twin, they move around  the center looking from the side with a horizontal axis or an up and down hop. If you keep adding wieght in an effort to fix that movement  thet begin to move around the same axis point in a vertical line (move sideways)
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

vdubnut62

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2017, 01:23:34 AM »
Love the 46! Had a 47 KB7 International with the roll out windshield, pretty sweet except for the bugs it scooped up! Currently have a 68 C-50 with a dump, last year for the 327 engine.  Like the roid, keep it up.

Ron in TN.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2780
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2017, 06:14:11 AM »

Looks like my 12/2 acquisition is going ahead.
The 6/1 is a jackhammer and I really want an engine that will sit nicely on a trolley and just putt away.  Don't tell me if I get a twin I'm going to have to chain that down as well!

I am kicking myself so hard for not buying that little Kubota the other week. Just caught me at a bad time when I wasn't feeling well or happy.  Even the Mrs told me to get it! Never make that mistake again although not likely to with the infrequency those things come up.

Thing that concerns me with the twin is the weight! My 5 Cyl Mercedes motor and 6 Cyl 4.2 in my truck doesn't weight as much as these things which I see specced at 495 Kg! Then there is the gen head which is probably another 100 plus the frame, cooling system....

Going to have to reinforce the shed floor!!

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2017, 12:16:24 PM »
Glort,  the twins are much harder to get settled down on a cart than a single!! There is nothing inherently smooth about them unless you keep them below about 500 RPM.  Primary reason is the balancing weight is on opposite sides of each flywheel and they are  a Looong ways apart.  An internally balanced 650 RPM twin with no balance weights on the flywheels would be a real nice engine!!  Problem is the dont make one,, that I am aware of. :(
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

2Ton46

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2017, 01:40:35 PM »
I agree getting it settled down is a challenge.  I think the primary reason mine is reasonably stable is that it is sitting on a welded cart made of a little over 30 feet of W4 beam and some 1/2" plate, plus some various other structural steel. It probably weighs half as much as the engine or more. Not to mention the almost 3 lbs of lead weights placed on the flywheels to tame it further.  It still vibrates, but reasonably, as in its not self-driving away and its not resonating the radiator supports. Somehow in that video clip it looks way smoother than it really is, part of it is that it is actually running a little slow in that clip, I had failed to get the governor adjustment correctly tight and it crept down a little on me. The other part is the soil is soft under it as we had had a little rain. As far as mobility, I can move it just fine by hand on the concrete shop floor.  Once outside on soft soil or on any sort of grade, its more than I can do alone, so it gets hitched onto something for a tow.

tdupriest

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2017, 01:50:07 PM »
Just watched the video.  Nice set-up.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 03:19:41 PM by tdupriest »

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2780
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2017, 02:39:48 PM »

I'll be bloody Dissapointed if I get another Jackhammer of an engine.
 The 6/1 defied my attempts to balance the thing and also tore the concrete bolts out the cement when I bolted it down. 1/2" coach bolts in 6" hardwood were no match either.
If the 12 is the same I think I'll be done with these things.  Take off the gen head and put it on a Kubota whatever it costs.  Might keep the merc till I see how the 12 goes.  The merc is a bloody heavy thing but the scary part is it should be lighter than the 12.  They are listed at 495 Kg. Merc is 300 on a good day.

I moved the roid today. haven't run it in maybe 3 years. Fuel line looks like it's gone to goo into the filter but I turned it over and could hear the injector  squirting.  I oiled the ship out of everything before I put it under cover and turning it over oil was running out the thing which I was happy with. Certainly isn't anything stuck.


I also did a bit of shed organising. Hmm, I think I might have gone a bit over board on the engine collecting.  Was saying to a mate I had 15 not including the Roid and the merc. He said are they all diesels? I said I was only counting the Diesels! there is another 3 'loose" petrol's not to mention the ones on equipment and then there are the 2 strokes.  :embarassed:
Sure take up a lot of shed space even when I stacked some 3 high.

I fired up 2 of the China horozontals, the lombardini, and the ruggerini today.  Havent touched the italians in at least a year and the china's for 6 months and they all started first pull. Got to love diesels.

There are 5 engines I could part with that could pay for a Kubota or yanmar inline water-cooled plus the 12 if it turns out a hopper.
Not as cool looking but ease of use and practicality would win out.
 Other option would be to bring in a larger water-cooled  china horizontal. 15 hp or better would be nice.

2Ton46

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2017, 04:38:09 AM »
Have to love the sleeping diesel, seems if everything is right it seems they can sit nearly forever before a call to service. Funny how engines can flock together and take up all the shed space. They seem to do that in a lot of places.

Had some time yesterday and some good weather, so we setup the 'Roid, belted up the yard fan, and hooked up the shaft to the shop fan.  Filled the tank and prepped everything for a good test run.  Let her run from about 10am til just after dark, a touch over 8 hours. Looks like the next event will have at least 8 hours of run time on a tank of fuel, and could stretch probably to 10 hours with careful observation over the last couple of hours. Engine ran without any smoke all day. Everything looks good, although I have a little evidence of slobbering oil on one cylinder. it wasn't much as it never dripped off of the exhaust elbow where it is appearing. Hopefully its still breaking in, and its not that questionable oil ring not doing its job. I'll pull the cover and inspect everything before the next run. Still have a little work to do on the cart setup, and then it will be time for paint.  I can do many things, but painting seems to always drive me crazy. hopefully i can get everything prepped sometime next week if the weather cooperates.

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2017, 05:35:11 AM »
There's no such thing as a jackhammer CS 6/1, Glort, just a CS that needs some attention.  Quit fiddling and use 38AC's method...if you had trouble adding counterbalance weight equally to both flywheels there's now doubt you have wildly mismatched flywheels and/or offset counterbalance so get them lined up and match'ed up first. 

A "jackhammer" (lots of vertical movement) is clearly grossly underbalanced, so once your wheels match you can start with perhaps 8oz to each wheel added to the counterbalance.  4oz is a modest change, 2 oz for fine tuning.  Back off if you start to see too much fore-aft movement.  When the wheels are matched first, it really is simple.


glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2780
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2017, 11:19:44 AM »

Your suggestion Bruce adds to what I suspected in hindsight with my last balancing attempts.... I may have added too much weight.
I'll start at your midway suggestion next time and work from there.

I'd really lie to have the 6 Going for my Daughters 21st . It's about a month away an she wants a bush/ country theme. I suggested a lister putting away driving some lights and to my great surprise she loved the idea.
I'm thinking of getting a large metal post, putting a couple of those coachlight fittings on it with some o those old style yellowish glowing oversized bulbs and
 Putting that near the engine so it powers the light post.

Can't see noise being a problem with the music.  Might be the only sounds during  the night I can stand!

I'll run the 12 as well and might put some bigger lights on that.

I'm a bit time limited now but I'll give the 6 a day of effort and see how I go.  Might leave it on the wooden base and sit it on the grass or loose garden bed and see how it goes from there.  Shouldn't walk or bounce around as much on that as on concrete.
I hope.

2Ton46

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2017, 01:40:57 AM »
Glort, Hopefully your balance attempt is successful this time.  Without seeing your engine in operation, it's possible that you might have added the weights opposite of where they needed to be, easy to miss and makes a skinny jackrabbit into one that has had a lot of carrots. Sounds like an awesome party either way!

I received my long awaited package today, so was able to install an intake pre-cleaner on the intake and I put a couple of flappy rain-caps up on the exhaust. I'm still tweaking the intake, as it doesn't seem to want to sit level, not that anything else is that perfect on the beast either, but it would look a bit neater. Probably will have to re-bend the support arm to get it to hold everything a bit farther from the side. It has cut down a little on the intake noise and will look classy once leveled up proper. The filter housing is a used one that I had sitting around on the shelf for almost 10 years from an old machine that is no longer around.



I haven't tested the rain-caps under load, but I think I have them balanced properly for the relatively light exhaust flow considering they are 5.5" diameter caps. I'm also not looking for them to be the solution for stormy weather, rather something to keep out a passing shower if I get caught with the thing out of the shed that I don't have to remember to install after shutdown. I can never remember the buckets that I was using.  I have them balanced to just float about 3/4" open with the engine running with no load.  Slowing the engine and then opening the rack will have them stay nearly all the way open, so they should stay somewhere around half open under moderate load. Also, the caps are of the silent type, so that if they start bouncing about they don't make a loud clang noise, just a soft thud as there is a bit of a hard rubber insert that they impact before going metal on metal. Hopefully, I can do a test under load sometime tomorrow and see if they will be as expected. During the brief no-load test run they weren't bouncing, just floating, and were not making any noise that could be heard over the normal engine noise. I also think they will be a nice visual load indicator.



glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2780
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2017, 09:27:18 AM »

I went for the theory that the counterbalance in the flywheel was light as that is what everyone else seems to have encountered.
Everyone keeps saying take the flywheels off and I have no doubt they are right but pulling the flywheels and putting them back on just seems like pushing my luck and patience with things way too far.

I played with the rack on mine yesterday and freed it right up with some degreaser.  It was very sticky  and I though I may have to take it off and clean it out but some degreaser and running it back and forward did the job.

I remember someone saying about the governor linkages binding and to sort them out.  I started fiddling with them and found they were binding one way. Had to fiddle with the angle of the arm but got it totally free both ways.  Also got to thinking and figuring about the spring and decided it would be best to lock it up  both sides. Much to my utter amazement I found the right size Nut almost straight away in the first tun of old nuts and Bolts I looked in.

Couldn't find the wheel weights I know I picked up and put away in the most dangerous place of all, Somewhere safe, where they will turn up a week after the job is done.
I'll get some more next couple of days.

With listers on my mind, I went through some YT Vids and found 38AC's vid on setting up a governor!
Amazed myself by getting 90% of it right.  I did adjust the clevis but not sure if I got it right. I did set it then found I couldn't hold the shut off lever right so re adjusted it again till I could. Must be close anyway.

Pretty Chuffed I got so much of it right just looking at it and working it out on my own.  Then again, it is pretty damn simple and straightforward.  I did have to slightly overbore the slip fitting on the rack clevis to allow enough clearance with that.
I was also wondering about the slop in the various pins and though about tightening that all up But then thought the thing will likely get oil on it which will attract grit which will cause it to bind up.

Decided I go with the Kalashnikov style of engineering being loose with lots of freeplay that won't bind up rather than the stoner way of doing it with tight tolerances that bind easily with a bit of dirt.

I was most pleased I figured out the lock nut on the spring hook.  Just seemed better to take the slop out there and keep the angles constant and the tension even.

I'll get the wheel weights ( a lot of them by the sound of it!) and start at 100G and go from there.
There is an old trolley frame I found that I'd like to mount the engine on so I can move it around.  Found some steel bars that can be welded on the frame and the engine locked down and see how it goes.  Also need a bit of 2" pipe to make up a starting handle and see if I can get the thing to run and stay in one place without propelling itself all over the yard.


I like the rain caps on the exhaust. Off to ebay to find some of those for my engines.  Hopefully be able to fetch the  12/2 in the next week.  Found a tractor with a back hoe not far away so might have a look at that and make it a real worthwhile and expensive trip.  :0)

dieselspanner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2017, 10:41:25 AM »
Hi Glort

I think the Kalashnikov principle is the way to go with the linkage. somewhere on here is a photo of a tension device, it's just a piece of 2.5mm welding rod bent into a curve, allowing a light spring to put tension between the first connection and the last. I used the split pin holes to hook the rod and the end of the spring (one from a twin SU carb set up)

It makes a real difference, I get a flutter of just 3/4 rpm under 3/4 load.

After I posted the photo someone else said they'd done the same thing, with good result, nothing new under the sun!

I think it was Ed Dee, amongst others, who put a light spring on the free end of the rack to achieve the same effect, with the bonus that if the linkage failed the rack would be pulled to the stop postition

I did consider knocking up a whole new linkage with rose joints, but went down the 'if it's not broke' road and saved a few bob.

Happy new year.
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

2Ton46

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Project Roid
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2017, 02:14:14 PM »
If you happen to have a fancy phone, I've found it very useful to use the slow-motion video feature. Have not seen that mentioned on the board yet. Can see lots of things that you wouldn't otherwise. Maybe useful for your balance attempt, as you'll be able to see it hop in relation to where the flywheels are, and if you keep the same camera angle should be able to see how your weights are changing the hop. It is also useful for troubleshooting other issues, especially things that don't seem to move right in operation, but are not obvious when shut down.