Author Topic: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab  (Read 10831 times)

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2326
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #195 on: September 27, 2018, 03:04:31 PM »
The inexpensive China made AVR's my neighbor has for his ST-3 are "consumables".  He has to replace them every couple years.  This is likely due to marginal design and the high peak voltages of the harmonic output.  He has no fall back to harmonic windings alone as they produce something like 400V as is.  The harmonic windings are very sensitive to the clearance between rotor and stator, one of the many variables that aren't well controlled in the ST's.

Watch out for bum brushes- I got a batch with some contaminate in the graphite mix that would electrically insulate the brush contact after just a minute or two of spinning.  Took some head scratching to figure that out but it did show clearly with the ohm meter between brush wire and slip ring.


ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #196 on: September 28, 2018, 09:45:41 AM »
Thank you BruceM, very good to get a heads up from someone with much more experience of these heads than I have. I may have a whole load of questions later.

Hi OSM, I managed to remove all of the Yakfat grease from everything. I then removed as much of the red oxide sh1t it was covered in. Copper windings look good and read OK with an ohm meter. I still have to skim the slip rings in the lathe. I`ve replaced the nasty bit of painted rag that was holding the wires to the slip rings in place. I`ve replaced it with cotton string. The whole assembly has had three coats of satin polyurethane varnish(what I had). Shame that some parts of the plastic coil bobbins are damaged but shouldn`t cause any problems. This damage was done during manufacture or assembly as there are no loose pieces inside the casing. The new sealed bearing Stephen supplied look pretty good quality and should give good service. Photos attached.

I`ll have a go at the other half of the assembly tomorrow.

Bob


old seagull man

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #197 on: September 28, 2018, 03:32:03 PM »
Bob;

Most impressive work, and thank you so much for the step by step guide to doing mine.
I'm quite looking forward to it arriving and getting on with the job.


Andrew.

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #198 on: September 29, 2018, 09:46:02 AM »
Hi Andrew, I managed to clean the other half of the assembly today removed rust, yakfat, mouse droppings and sawdust. The most worrying discovery was a blob of solder that had fallen onto the field windings. The moron given the job of soldering the connections in the top box allowed molten solder to drip down from above. I doubt that it will have burned off the polyurethane on the windings but it is just another example of shoddy Chinese workmanship. I removed it mechanically and then made sure every thing got a couple of good coats of new varnish. Please see photos.

I also discovered that the lazy buggers hadn`t bothered to clear the casting sand out of the bearing housings. Not a really good idea when running unsealed bearings covered in Yakfat!  :laugh:

Bob

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2334
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #199 on: September 29, 2018, 10:39:48 AM »

All in all seems like a perfect companion to a Roid.

Just as the engines from India are nothing more than kits that need to be pulled apart and rebuilt properly, Why should the Chinese alternators be any different?

Really is amazing just how little care and concern they have for Quality and pride in workmanship of any kind..... Especially when you consider how competitive the market for these things must be where they are mainly sold.

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #200 on: September 29, 2018, 11:51:40 AM »
Hey Glort, this sort of lack of attention to detail amazes me. How do these people expect to have jobs in the future if they continue to make such simple mistakes? I guess that Chinese training and development is minimal, the supervision occasional and the quality assurance non existent. What a shame that the largest manufacturing base on earth is still wasting materials, resources and man power on these sub standard products.

Please don`t misunderstand me, the shafts, windings and castings are all of acceptable quality, why would you have them assembled with sub standard bearings by a moron? I can only guess that they never have to replace anything as the guarantee isn`t worth the paper it`s written on.

This is a common problem in communist countries. I have a friend who lives and works in St. Petersburg in Russia. He tells me that the performance of a factory is not determined by how much profit it makes but how much stuff it produces. This ends up with bizarre results, for instance a factory that produced a million drinking glasses last year, that no one wants or buys, is considered a huge success if it produces 2 million glasses this year! The weirdest example of this was a shoe and boot manufacturer that had two production lines, one making boots for the left foot and another making boots for the right foot. Incredibly they introduced a competition between the two lines with financial rewards for the winning line. They then built warehouses in which to store the boots they couldn`t make into a pair!

On the positive side, I think with a little work this will be a very good and reliable alternator.

Bob


old seagull man

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #201 on: September 29, 2018, 03:55:22 PM »
Bob;

Thanks for all the photos and info on the job, best of luck with it and the result.
I had been contemplating using a 7kw gen head single bearing gen in stead.
And building a drive for it knowing it would work with just a cursory inspection.
Even though it would be at 3000 rpm. But your investigation and photos, and Glorts moral support, has me confident, that at the end of this.
You may have a silk purse,  but there is a fair chance i wont end up with a sow's ear.

I had been thinking about the metering of these generators, and an accurate speed measuring, and the penny dropped. The Chinese meters i use on the output of all my inverters would be perfect.
It measures volts, watt, frequency, Kwh, Amps, and power factor. Stick one in the Top box with the outlets on the other side, and i will always know were i'm at. Frequency and load wise.

Ebay about $20 for the 20 amp internal shunt version, comes in 100 amp as well.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 03:58:02 PM by old seagull man »

glort

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2334
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #202 on: September 30, 2018, 02:24:54 AM »

I have 3   or 4   or 5 ?? Of those meters and they are very good.
The ones I prefer are the ones with the inductive pickup. You can put them round the line you want to measure and extend the leads back to the meter where you want to locate it. I have also for lower ( 10A applications just run teh power through the meter itself and put the pickup on the supply lines so I can plug in any normal AC appliance and measure it's current and total power consumption over a given period.

 I -think- the ones with the shunts are the DC type, the higher amp AC ones have the pickup. The lower <10A ones are the same just without the pickup coil.

In any case, all good meters that I have used a lot and am very fond of.

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #203 on: November 11, 2018, 10:26:01 AM »
Well Guys, I finally got around to doing a bit on the old girl. I ordered a new replacement bush for the non injector pump and of the camshaft. When it arrived it was of such poor quality that I put it straight in the bin and turned up a new one, please see photo.

Instead of turning an oil control ring in one end I felt it would be better to allow the oil to flow through into the end cover. The problem with this is that there is no return passage for the oil to return to the sump.

Simple solution, drill a hole through the cankcase, please see photo.

I hope this will lubricate the end bush and reduce the wear that causes excessive end float in the camshaft.

Bob

sirpedrosa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Just another day hoping hear that sound
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #204 on: November 12, 2018, 11:46:09 AM »
Hi Bob

The oil pump feeds this camshaft bush? Isn't it necessary to be a different pressure to make oil flow?

BR
VP
Bernard 18A - 1968

ajaffa1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
    • View Profile
Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #205 on: November 14, 2018, 07:15:17 AM »
Hi Pedrosa, this bush is splash lubricated by the oil thrower on the bottom of the con-rod. The oil flows in through a hole in the top of the bush and housing. The oil evacuates from the bush via the slot in the bottom. It can now evacuate at both ends of the bush. one end is in the crankcase the other end is behind the cover shown in the photograph. Hence the need for a drain hole.

Bob