Author Topic: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab  (Read 10701 times)

mikenash

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #165 on: September 16, 2018, 10:33:10 PM »
"greater manufacturing tolerances".  A generous term

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #166 on: September 16, 2018, 10:46:21 PM »
Much easier to make shim washers in various thicknesses than to get your manufacturing tolerances right!

Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #167 on: September 17, 2018, 09:34:51 AM »
Well guys here is the info as promised. The gear on the crankshaft and The idler gear mesh very well and the faces are parallel. (please see photo) The camshaft gear is out of alignment towards the injector pump end by 20 thou, probably nothing to worry about.

The injector pump cam lobe is out off alignment, in the opposite direction, by about 30 thou. I have tossed the thick gasket I purchased and cut a thin paper replacement, this reduces the 30 thou to about 10 thou, hopefully within tolerance. (see pic)

The camshaft end float using the old worn bush and end cap now comes in at 25 thou. (see photo) I will take a very small skim off the end cap because it is pitted with rust and then turn a new cast iron bush to give me 5 thou of end float. I will also be taking a skim off the worn end of the camshaft(IP end) before turning the new Oilite bush to fit.

I have checked the lash in the timing gears, I have about 5 thou between the idler gear and the crankshaft pinion gear. I have about 10 thou between the idler gear and the camshaft gear. (done with feeler gauges)
I am thinking a new idler spigot with an off set of around 25 to 30 thou should get me in the ball park.

Advice please,

Bob



glort

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #168 on: September 17, 2018, 01:16:58 PM »

Are these problems caused by wear or manufacturing defects Bob?

If it's manufacturing on a genuine lister, makes you wonder how bad 'Roids must be!

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #169 on: September 18, 2018, 12:10:45 AM »
Hey Glort, It`s a mixture of wear and manufacturing defects.

The first issue was the new crankshaft and bush bearings being too short and having 30 thou of end float, without any gaskets under the bearing housings. Had to cut shims to get the end float down to 5 thou and use a liquid gasket. The crankshaft gear now aligns well with the original idler gear.

The second issue is wear in the idler gear and spigot which leaves me with 5 thou of lash with the crankshaft gear and 10 thou lash with the camshaft. I am sure this can be resolved with an offset spigot bolt.

The third issue is the alignment between the idler gear and the camshaft gear. This must be a manufacturing error on the original Lister! (please don`t throw things  ;D ) The wear in the steel bush and keeper have actually improved the alignment.

The last issue is the position of the new cam lobe for the injector pump. It is not centered under the injector roller. I have reduced the problem by using a much thinner gasket but it is still not right. I could get it spot on by adjusting the steel bush and keeper at the other end of the camshaft but this makes the gear alignment worse. I have wondered if this misalignment is deliberate allowing the non meshing 30 thou of the camshaft to act as an oil thrower to lubricate the brass bush and injector pump roller.

Anyone thinking they can repair a Lister cs by simply swapping worn parts for new Indian parts is going to be very disappointed, the tolerances and dimensions just don`t match.
Thoughts please.

Bob


ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #170 on: September 20, 2018, 08:32:28 AM »
Managed to get access to a mate`s lathe today, so I turned down the injector pump end of the camshaft by 25 thou. Turned a new bush from an over sized piece of Oilite. I am not going to bother to cut an oiler groove in this bush as the original didn`t have one and lasted for nearly sixty years.

I`ll have a go at an off set spigot for the idler gear tomorrow. I managed to salvage a suitable piece of steel from an old Land Rover gearbox. It was so hard that I couldn`t mark it with a file so I put it in our wood burning stove overnight to anneal it, nice and soft now. I should be able to harden and temper it afterwards.

Bob

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #171 on: September 23, 2018, 12:04:14 PM »
Well guys, I found the problem with the new IP cam lobe not being centered under the injector pump lifter. The new Cam lobe is drilled about 40 thou different from the original. (Please see pic) So much for Indian engineering.  >:(

Didn`t leave me with any option but to reuse the original. Annealed the old cam lobe, resurfaced it with a very fine file, followed by varying grades of emery cloth. It`s now about 10 thou smaller than the new one. Hardened it, then tempered it and a file won`t mark it now, so I think it worked out OK. I very much doubt that the loss of 10 thou will have a significant effect on either the injection pump or the oil pump although I wouldn`t recommend trying it on any modern high speed engines.

Machined up a new cast iron bush for the other end of the camshaft because the end float, due to wear, was excessive. (please see pic) I was about to cut the oil retaining groove in the far end of it to prevent oil from flowing into and puddling in the end cover when I had a revelation. The reason for the excessive end float is wear between the end of the bush and the face of the keeper which are deprived of lubrication by that oil retaining groove. So, instead, I have cut the oil slot in the new bush from end to end. (please see pic) This will lubricate the far end of the camshaft and keeper. The problem with this is that the end cover will fill up with oil. The solution is to drill a hole in the crankcase to allow that oil to drain back into the sump. I shall be doing that later this week and will post photos.

I managed to reassemble the camshaft, using the original components, I applied a couple of drops of medium strength Loctite to every cam lobe and taper pin before driving them in tight, I don`t want anything working loose, I don`t like surprises. (Please see pic)

Very disappointed, I turned a new offset spigot for the idler gear, I took a guess at 25 thou offset, no where near enough, I`m thinking 45 thou to get the gears to mesh well. I guess I`ll just have to make another.

Off to the doctors again tomorrow, so will try to post more on Tuesday.

Bob




glort

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #172 on: September 23, 2018, 01:47:47 PM »


I think this one is going to outlast us all Bob. Beautiful work you are doing with it. 
If you want to run it on veg, give the head a skim before you put it back on . More compression the better. Also see if you can advance the fuel injection about 5o .  That will also make the thing much happier and easier to start on Veg oil.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #173 on: September 23, 2018, 02:35:34 PM »
Hey Glort, I`m worried it will easily outlast me but so might my 7 year old dog. I`ve told Narelle (my wife) to make sure the CS goes to you should if and when I carc it. (hopefully not soon)

On another thread, I posted that I was going to bed and I would read you treatise on WVO tomorrow, I`m still here cos I lied and have no will power, I had to read it tonight. A fine piece of work, I`ll read it again in the morning and try to find fault with it.

Bob

glort

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #174 on: September 23, 2018, 03:32:42 PM »

Hey Glort, I`m worried it will easily outlast me but so might my 7 year old dog.

Thanks for the bequest but there is every chance you will be collecting my pile of Cra.... toys.  I have no optimism of living a long life. I try to exercise and do more and I just feel more tired and drained each day rather than be able to handle things better.
Nearly wiped myself out yesterday.  Threw an IBC in the back of the ute and went down the Equine park.  Loaded up a Cubic meter of horse manure.
Time I pushed the IBC off the back of the ute when I got home I was stuffed. Came in and felt like I had been run over. Just from that.  Pathetic.
Took me a few hours of feeling really weird sitting in the chair till I could go back out and do anything else useful.

Then there is the mental outlook.
Between the 2, I reckon I'll be lucky to get to retirement age.  Might give the Mrs a chance to meet a decent fella and have some good years when I'm out the way!


Quote
I`ll read it again in the morning and try to find fault with it.



Shouldn't be hard!   :laugh:

No matter how many times you try to proof read your own ramblings, You still miss things. I sat on it a couple of days as I like to sleep on things and re read anyway and thought I had it right.  Looked over something again tonight and saw all the mistakes.
I'll wait for you Critique on anything more substantial I may have got wrong, fix that and re upload the corrected version..... one of many I'm sure if there is any appreciable interest in the document.

Maybe I should do one on WI?  Could also do DIY Solar, How to take glam pictures and one on the top 20 questions I get asked about oil burners even though I have mentioned the answers in literally 20+ vids and 100 replys to comments.

Amazes me. I always read the description if I am interested in more info and go to the other vids on the channel to see what other vids they may have i'd be interested in.  Seems other people just make a comment asking for you to do a vid on something already literally covered in 10 others and headlined in 2.

Seems few other people do what I do though in looking for more information that already there. They will tell you they couldn't be bothered reading descriptions but take the time to type out involved questions!   ::)

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #175 on: September 24, 2018, 10:18:52 AM »
Hey Buddy, very worried to hear you are suffering funny turns after doing fairly mild physical activity. Have you spoken to your Doctor? I had several incidents like that before my heart attack. I don`t want to worry you or add to the stress you already have but please get it checked out. A simple myocardial profusion scan or a stress test could put both our minds at rest.

Bob

glort

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #176 on: September 24, 2018, 11:33:37 AM »

Went to the Doc about 6 weeks back Bob. Did tell him of the problems I was having. got a load more pills which cost me now over $200 a month. Don't feel any better, in fact I have felt like complete and utter crap for a while since taking them.

My blood pressure except for a period of great emotional stress and grief has always been the one good thing about me. It hasn't lessened. Doc said that the other week,  unusually perfect blood pressure considering other things. Have to go back shortly with the latest bloodwork so I'll raise it up with him again. every time I sit down, I'm like a 90 yo getting up. I'm stiff and sore and like I'm going to stall half way through standing and fall back down.

I suspect a lot is just mental really.  I wasn't bad at my Dads, started slow and was feeling pretty good time I left. Get back here and I can feel myself go downhill even though I have tried really hard to keep busy. I had the same thing a few years ago. Couldn't get out my own way. Did a real through blood work and I was really good medically, doc said it's not your body that's the problem, it's your head. Took some convincing that being depressed could make me feel that physically bad but the numbers don't lie.

I kinda decided today that I'm going to give the business bit of a push again. I have no idea if it will fly or crash and burn but I have a feeling if I can stay motivated enough to give it a decent go, it will be one extreme or the other rather than a middle ground.
I got a lecture from the Mrs last night.  I was sitting here checking out this models portfolio that wants to shoot with me.  Mrs comes in and looks at me, looks at the pics and asks what I'm looking at. Told her and she wacked me in the head and said how can you look so bored looking at her? Shes a stunner, get on there and line something up and get off your arse.  Got a bit more about how bored and unmotivated I looked and to get a bit enthusiastic about things.

Uggh, it all seems too boring these days!  Rather go play with engines or solar panels but that won't pay so well unfortunately.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #177 on: September 24, 2018, 01:00:25 PM »
Hey Glort, glad to hear the problem isn`t physical. Mental/motivational issues are hard to deal with but a heart attack can kill you in minutes.

I kinda understand your issue with young model types: young, dumb, opinionated in all the wrong ways, lousy company with exaggerated expectations of their own worth, just like my first wife. Now I`m much more interested in intelligent women than pretty ones. Sound like your wife has her head screwed on right.

I guess you feel a bit like a midwife: first birth is something special, after you`ve done 10,000 you just slap it`s arse and stick it on the tit. Hope you can find some motivation to restart the business, gives you a good reason to spend time on the sunshine coast where you are happy. Perhaps you could find a happy medium by working a month and then have a month off or possibly a week on and a month off, whatever works for you.

Happy to help if I can,

Bob

glort

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #178 on: September 24, 2018, 03:13:01 PM »

As usual Bob, your insight is spot on. 

I am in about 6 Minds how this will go now. The photo game has always been over saturated but now with the advent of Digital, it's ridiculous.  Before I was a real specialist in what I did and while others tried, they always failed. They never understood it's not about the images, it's about what's behind them and why the person wants them. I go up the coast and I see a bunch of shooters that leave me for dead in my opinion.  That said,  I did a promo using my old shots and got people wanting to shoot with me. Put the new pics up I did with them and got over run with more people keen to work together. 
Not sure if that was a fluke or if it can be profitably sustained.  I have pretty high expectations of what I want to earn. I should clarify that in I still want to earn what I did  10-20 years ago which may sound backwards but that was a shipload more than people are getting today.  I wouldn't get out of bed for what people get now so whether I can earn something I consider worthwhile when there are SO many cheaper and I think better purveyors around, is a big question.

I also wonder a lot if I will be seen as creditable or just another fat gutted, middle age, balding fella using a camera to get close to young women who wouldn't look at them sideways otherwise. There has always been a load of them around. Id see the same guys over the course of years giving away their work for free shooting hundreds of girls but their work never improved one bit despite all that practice.  If you do something that much and never get any better, then it's pretty much guaranteed your interest is not in the actual work you are doing but rather who you are doing it with.

Your midwife analogy is also spot on.  It can be fun though.  I am totally impervious to what turns a lot of blokes into driveling Lapdogs.
I was at a party last summer for my nephew. Lots of young girls there and a few with big tickets on themselves.  One whom clearly had to be the centre of attention came up and asked if I was a photographer ( What was the give away, the $10K work of crap I was running around with taking pics of everyone there??)  and when I said yes, she asked me if I was the uncle that shot models ?  Knew where that was going, same place it had 100 times before.  You can tell the type, too  much makeup, too low a cut top, too high a skirt and heels, too low an IQ and way too loud.  After not taking the obvious bait of asking her would she like to model for me despite trying to all but shove her barely covered and overly pushed up chest in my face, she asked if I thought she would make a good model?

I said " Well maybe but you'd have to learn how to improve your deportment a bit. "
She asked what I meant by that?  I said well you'd need to pay attention to details like your hair, you can't be a blonde model with dark roots like that and you need to get those split ends trimmed.  Your eyebrows need thinning as well. You would need to stop chewing your nails and get a manicure for your hands and feet and put some cream on the dry skin on your elbows. You need to accessorize much better, that  pendant on your necklace is way too big for your neckline and so are the earrings, they do not suit the proportion of your face.
 You should also wear something from the last season at least, not your mothers hand me downs. She asked what was wrong with what she had on?
 I said well that outfit you are almost wearing is over 10 years old, it's a bit out of date to be seen in if you were wanting to get into the modeling game.  She asked how I knew how old her outfit was? I said that outfit came from Forecasts 2nd Summer collection in 2014.
I shot their catalogue for them and that was the outfit we put on the cover..."  My wife standing beside me say's " I remember that, the one you shot at Randwick race course in the middle of winter" Yep!

I saw my nephew and a couple of his mates whom were standing behind her spit their drinks out through their nose and run up the back laughing.
Bimbo girl didn't know what to say and made a quiet retreat.
My wife later told me I was a bastard. I said yes, but am I a liar? 
No, didn't think so.

Yeah, there is more to that game than a bottle of peroxide and a push up bra.... or 2.

With the thousands of Homes being thrown up round here I also think the family portrait business would be a good one round here. Not sure how I'd go seeing and having to work with little kids and happy families now though.
 Also have to work out the style i'd produce. I was thinking of something like an old farm house facade up the back. Put the boys on something like a peddle car or even a ride on mower and the girls on a rocking horse or something cute.  Could sit the family group on the verandah. Then again, do I really want people and kids running round here?

Might just do more location stuff around the local area.

ajaffa1

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Re: Lister CS 6/1 as form of rehab
« Reply #179 on: September 25, 2018, 12:22:37 AM »



I also wonder a lot if I will be seen as creditable or just another fat gutted, middle age, balding fella using a camera to get close to young women who wouldn't look at them sideways otherwise.

Now I`m really concerned, since when did you start giving a flying f*ck what other people think? Why don`t you just tell them you are gay, then sue them for their homophobic attitudes?

I`m wondering is you can`t merge your love of photography and machinery, always going to be a demand for photos of high end motor vehicles with scantily clad beauties.

I also think there will always be a demand for portraiture.  Any fool with a smart phone can take photos, but it takes real talent to capture someones character in a picture. Digital imaging  also allows easy editing so a portrait can be set against pretty much any background the client asks for. Cartoon characters for the little fellas, Star wars for the teenagers?  The sky and your imagination are the only limits.

Bob