Author Topic: TR3 Bleeding Fuel  (Read 1438 times)

Allan Jackson

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TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« on: October 17, 2017, 06:18:50 PM »
Ok. So now I have had my injectors out, stripped, cleaned, and rebuilt my engine. I have bled the fuel lines in the usual way up to the nuts at the base of the Swan necked fuel lines but I still can't get the thing to start. There must be something I'm missing. Could anyone help me further? Thanx in advance.
Allan

glort

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 10:59:08 PM »
There must be something I'm missing. Could anyone help me further? Thanx in advance.
Allan

Given the extensive and through details of your engine, what you have done over all, it's setup and symptoms of the problem, After much careful consideration and analysis as well as confirming my thoughts with a learned College whom is an expert in the field,  I think I can say with  a significant amount of certainty the thing you are most likely missing is " Combustion".

I am sure once you get some of that happening in your engine regularly you will have no further issues and your engine will not only start but will in fact run as well.

Good luck with it!

Samo

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 10:06:26 AM »
Hi Allan,

I'd confirm fuel and spray pattern from the injectors, remove them, replumb to the pump and turn it over. Check for output and spray pattern.

Samo
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Allan Jackson

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 05:59:18 PM »
Thanks Samo. I will indeed be trying that first thing. I'm hoping that it is just air in the system as I have just had the injectors services and the nozzles replaced. Thanx for your time.
Allan

dieselspanner

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 09:43:59 PM »
I don't know how others feel but if you are reasonably certain you've disturbed nothing else, and you still have the crank rotating in the correct direction, pull the air filter and get some one to spray WD 40 or 3 in one oil (from a spray can) down the inlet.

First it will increase compression, secondly it will hopefully ignite and get the cranking speed up. This will help to purge reluctant injectors.

As it starts to run you may find you can control the engine speed with the spray can.

DON'T be tempted by 'Start Pilot' or similar ether based 'Angels Breath', they strip the oil that aids compression and have a much lower compression ignition point that can  result in the motor running backwards, or worse stopping it with such a jolt that something breaks - ask me (and several others who post on here) how I know!

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

dieselgman

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2017, 03:10:36 AM »
Make certain fuel rack is freely moving and that your pumps are indeed rotating fully from the stop positions to the full throttle position. Then bleed your system until you can hear the injectors creak while cranking with decompressors engaged. After that you will get smoke under full compression. +1 on adding some top-cylinder lube to get a reluctant engine to fire. Remember that you have to have the 3-things to get her started - Fuel, Air, Heat (compression).

dieselgman
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starfire

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2017, 04:02:08 AM »
Agree, WD40/CRC5-56 is the ticket for a  forced soft start of a reluctant engine, When pushed, fly spray / hair spray aerosols, etc that use propane for the propellant work nicely too, and make the exhaust smell nice.
That Ether based easy start  is what Meth Amphetamine is to humans, the engine will rapidly become addicted to the stuff and in a very short time refuse to start without it. A squirt of straight oil too will help in severely  cold  weather.

glort

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2017, 05:15:28 AM »
That Ether based easy start  is what Meth Amphetamine is to humans, the engine will rapidly become addicted to the stuff and in a very short time refuse to start without it.

Sorry, but that is one of the most idiotic parroted loads of crap that people go on with and an embarrassment to peoples intelligence.

It's a fking machine, not a living creature.  Please explain to me exactly, with precision and verifiable detail, what the physical, mechanical and metallurgical conditions are ( or any other phononema ) is that takes place to cause  a mechanical, non intelligent, non living thing such as an engine to develop a chemical dependency?
I don't know how any intelligent, knowledgeable people can repeat such utter moronic garbage.
Machinery having a drug/ chemical  addiction... Talk about a face palm!!  ::) ::) ::)

What happens is the problem that necessitates the need for the spray/ chemical in the first place simply continues or gets worse the longer it is left and the machine runs. People use the starting fluid to bypass the problem instead of fixing it.  It's a mechanical/ physical problem not a biological one!
If the problem is fixed in the first place, the need for the starting fluid goes away. It's pretty logical.

The only exception may be in climates of extreme cold but the problem will self correct in warmer temps and the assembly of metal and mechanical parts will not become dependent on some chemical like a some deadbeat junkie.

I used Methelyted spirits, methanol and in absence of those, petrol to start my Veg powered Merc in the winter. They all worked because they have a much lower Octane rating than the oil I was using and below that found in a Diesel engine.
 It was down on compression and a couple of the GP's didn't work so It would not fire on the much harder to light off Veg oil unless it had about 15% ULP blended in.  A shot of the go juice every morning down the throat of the thing got it going. After the first start of the day it was fine till it cold soaked the next morning. In summer it was fine all on it's own. My wifes exact same car that had an engine in FAR better condition ( having been re-conditioned) had no such problems and 5% ULP blended with the veg was all it needed to get it going in the dead of winter. 

In this case, if the air is bled out and the fuel system is operating correctly and the mechanical factors such as compression, timing etc are all in spec, then  the engine will start as it should and you can use starting fluid as often as you like in the correct amounts and the engine will not be damaged or  become a sentient being nor will the metallurgical structure of the machine be altered so as it becomes dependent on this chemical before it will function as designed.

Like most things, starting fluid is not a problem at all. It's the human factor behind the mentality that if a little is good, half a can must be better. Easier to pump the stuff in there than stop and try to figure what the cause of the non start is. That is the real problem with using the stuff. Engine does not start because of some mechanical or other problem so the pelican with the can thinks more is needed till finally what is now sloshing around in the engine lights off all at once and damage occurs that the person holding the can blames on the product rather than take responsibility for their own mistake.

If a person Over doses on asprin or sleeping tablets taking 10X what they should, no one runs round saying don't take aspirin, it will kill you.
I don't know why people think the product rather than the person using it is the one at fault with starting fluid or how mechanical and metallurgical machines can develop a chemical dependency like a creature with living cells?   
 :o

starfire

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2017, 06:25:54 AM »

 



What happens is the problem that necessitates the need for the spray/ chemical in the first place simply continues or gets worse the longer it is left and the machine runs. People use the starting fluid to bypass the problem instead of fixing it.  It's a mechanical/ physical problem not a biological one!
If the problem is fixed in the first place, the need for the starting fluid goes away. It's pretty logical.


[/quote]

Impressive Glort, theres no sneaking past you., you got it in one.
My gosh you Ozzies  are certainly very switched on.... sharp as a tack, 
I am very humbled.   :)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 06:28:45 AM by starfire »

mikenash

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2017, 10:21:06 AM »
    :)

AdeV

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 12:03:55 PM »
Excluding the non-existant chemical dependency  :laugh: it's still bad news to use Ether on a diesel engine with the possibility of pre-ignition and the likelihood of the ether exploding in the cylinder (rather than burning - a bit like a pinking/pinging car). Using ether long term on an engine could cause additional damage (over and above whatever's causing the hard starting problem in the first place).

I must admit, I used to use it on my lorry, which wouldn't start without it in winter (usual story - 1st start of the day. Subsequent starts were easier). Some time later a seal went in the fuel pump, and the fuel used to leak back into the tank overnight, cue 10 minutes of cranking to suck the fuel back up to the injectors. I used to start & run it on Easy-start in those days, balancing the spray pressure to keep the RPMs stable was an interesting chore! Fortunately, I managed to flog it to someone in Dublin before I exploded the engine...
Cheers!
Ade.
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glort

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Re: TR3 Bleeding Fuel
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2017, 02:54:12 PM »
My gosh you Ozzies  are certainly very switched on.... sharp as a tack, 
I am very humbled.   :)

After talking utter horse shit about machines becoming addicted to ether like humans become addicted to Crack, I can see why you would be both humbled and educated after such obvious  enlightenment.
Next time you'll be able to talk sense instead of the crap you parroted before on the subject.

You're welcome.