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Author Topic: hello  (Read 1344 times)

Debbie

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hello
« on: October 16, 2017, 01:52:13 PM »

Hi, this is just a quick hello from a new member. Hi  :D

I have a lister engine in my narrowboat. unfortunately I am not 100% sure which type it is.  :-[

I have looked at the pictures on the realdiesel website and the one it looks like the most is Lister Petter TS2M Twin Cylinder Air Cooled Marine Propulsion Engine. Although there are some differences. I have looked at other pics online and it also looks a lot like the Lister TR air cooled (2 cylinder)  So it might not be that one. I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to identify which engine I have?

Also I have been having starter motor problems since I have had the boat (about 18 months) Twice I have had to have the starter taken off and worked on. I realise it would be hard to help me with this problem if the correct engine type isnt known but hopefully once I find that out someone might be able to give me advice about the starter.

I had it reconed in the summer and was hoping that it might be sorted but the boat didnt start yesterday but with a bash to the starter it did so it looks like the starter problems are starting again (or not lol)

Anyway helloand thanks in advance :)


AdeV

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Re: hello
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 03:43:27 PM »
Hi, and welcome aboard (so to speak)!

The best way to ID your engine is to find the spec plate. The serial number - assuming it's a post 1952 engine - will contain the type. If you can't see/can't get to the spec plate, then the next most likely place for the S/N would be stamped into the outer face of the flywheel - at least, that happened with CS engines, I presume others too).

Can you get photos? Some of the members here have extensive experience with Listers and may well be able to ID it by sight.

Can you describe your starting problems? Is the engine turning over at a decent lick but not firing? Is the starter motor just clicking, or doing nothing at all, or letting the Lucas Magic Smoke(TM) out?
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

LowGear

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Re: hello
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 06:52:18 PM »
Hi Debbie,

Welcome.  One photo would speak so many words.

Casey
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Debbie

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Re: hello
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 03:53:43 PM »
Hi and thanks for replies. I am away until Thursday but will take some pics when I get back. And check for any numbers too :)

With regard to the starter problems I have been having. It begins by just clicking, not turning over at all. A wee bash with a hammer seems to sort it. (I am pretty sure this isn't good for it.)  This method of getting it to start works a few time but then, unsuprisingly, it doesn't anymore.

For a while I didn't have a float pump in my bilge, so supect that the starter got wet, as it sits quite low, and rain water and canal water from the prop does get into the bilge. After fitting the float pump I thought that problem was rectified.

I am wondering if damp getting itno the engine could be causing corrosion with-in the starter motor? And if that is the case what the solution might be. Canals are pretty damp places. WD40 sprayed onto the starter? covering it with a bag when moored up? Any ideas gratefully recieved :)

AdeV

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Re: hello
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 04:04:05 PM »
With regard to the starter problems I have been having. It begins by just clicking, not turning over at all. A wee bash with a hammer seems to sort it. (I am pretty sure this isn't good for it.)  This method of getting it to start works a few time but then, unsuprisingly, it doesn't anymore.

That's the classic symptom of a stuck solenoid. When you press the starter switch, rather than passing the entire starter motor current through the switch (which could be hundreds of amps), instead you turn on a solenoid. This does two things - it connects the starter motor using heavy-duty contacts, and also it throws out the starter pinion which engages in the flywheel. Tapping it with a hammer when it gets sticky is a classic workaround (and you won't do any particular damage to it, so long as you're not smacking the hell out of it...

Solution: Have the solenoid rebuilt. Or get the make/model of starter motor & find a solenoid kit for it & DIY. At a guess, any garage that deals with commercials should be able to handle a solenoid rebuild for that starter motor, or any marine specialist.
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

glort

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Re: hello
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 10:51:05 PM »
At a guess, any garage that deals with commercials should be able to handle a solenoid rebuild for that starter motor, or any marine specialist.

Try the garage First.
In my endless experience, anything from a marine place is always at least double as the SAME part from an automotive place.
Graphic example of this is a couple of places here that sell the same parts. One is an auto store/ chain the other an outdoor specialist that does a fair bit of boating parts.  There is a cross over in what they sell and the bits in the marine section are ALWAYS much more expensive.

This wouldn't be so unusual for different places to be charging different prices EXCEPT they both have the same parent company and some of those things are their own chinese stuff repackaged to their own brand with the same part numbers on the box. Seen it with filters especially, same brand/ part no, "Marine" Version ( because t's the same but in the marine section) over 120% more exy.
 I looked at some LED trailer lamps a while back and the ones in the auto place were $54 and the ones in the marine section of the other joint were $89.

Hard parts are the same.  Brother in law needed  new thermostat housing for one of the engines on his battle ship.  Well over $700 for the marine version. The same part ( and I mean the same, nothing different on the marine version) for the road going truck motor was $132.  Alternators are another thing. Fortune for the "marine" versions, identical road going version  less than 1/4.

Tell them the engine is on a dumper cart or an irrigation pump but DON"t tell them it's in a boat or the price will go north fast.

Debbie

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Re: hello
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 11:14:11 AM »
Thanks guys. I am not mechanically minded. But I think I understand what you are saying. I definately won't be able to do this myself and so will get it looked into. And yes I will definately take your advice with going to a regular garage/ parts dealer. You are absolutely right prices are definately hiked up if the word "marine" is mentioned.

As this is the 3rd time it has happened in the last 18 months does anyone have any ideas as to why this is a recurring problem? I do suspect when it happened at first it was because I didn't have a float pump and the starter motor got wet, but now I am not sure why it has happened. Any ideas as to how I can stop it happening again?

glort

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Re: hello
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 12:12:35 PM »

First thing is to know what and why it is happening.
Perhaps the Solenoid wasn't properly cleaned/ serviced when the starter itself was. Don't dismiss how slack some repairers can be.

If the thing is binding through Rust, then maybe simply packing it with grease could fix it and keep the problem from happening again.
The thing could have a broken wire or a dodgy connection. without knowing the problem, a fix is hard to pinpoint.  telling the repair guy the thing is on a pump may give him the hint it's around water and give them a heads up to a preventative treatment.

Bilges tend to be pretty damp places so whether the thing is under water or not may well be irrelevant, may even be worse than if it were because there is more oxygen to cause rust.  Like I said, a good dose of grease may at least keep the problem at bay longer if not fix all together. If something else is worn or buggered, then replacing that may be the real cure.  Have to find out the problem to institute a correct fix.

dieselspanner

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Re: hello
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 01:16:47 PM »
Hi Debbie

A bit off topic, but..........

Whatever you do get a bilge pump with an automatic float switch and wire it to the biggest set of batteries on board, don't add a switch or a fuse, it not starting when you desperately need it far outweighs the chances of it catching fire.

For the sake of safety, connect a second float switch to a flashing road works lamp (using the lamps integral battery) on a wire that allows you to hang it where someone in the port / marina / harbour / mate on the barge next door can see it when you're not aboard for long periods. Mount the bilge pump float switch in such a position that the flashing light comes on first, it'll cost less than 50 quid for peace of mind.

When you get next get some one to look at the starter, watch them closely, it's not a difficult thing to understand or repair, check out Youtube for more.

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

Tom

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Re: hello
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 08:52:14 PM »
Stef, something tells me there is a story behind that sound advice.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

dieselspanner

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Re: hello
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 10:04:19 PM »
It's a long one, Tom

It starts in '75 when I was drafted to Poole, Dorset, prior to a, 18 month commission on HMS Fearless (long since melted down for razor blades) working on landing craft, and is still ongoing on a small 'rich man's Med sled' out of Tarragona, in Spain.

In between I've refitted a narrow boat and a Dutch barge for myself and worked on all sorts of small commercial work boats and the like.

Most of it's been done on a shoe string and the commercial one's mostly under pressure to 'catch the next tide'. All of which has led to some monumental cock ups and the ability to sort them quickly or concoct a reasonable excuse for buggering off down the pub!

Joking aside, I picked up the road lamp trick from an old boy in a small marina years back and having knocked up 8 or 10 over the years, I've never had to rely on one, I hope there's never a first time...........

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.