Author Topic: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling  (Read 464 times)

queenofjacks

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10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« on: October 09, 2017, 06:29:28 PM »
  I have completed my conversion from Radiator to Tank Cooling - as discussed in another thread (things for sale).  I'm posting the results here because I think I'll get more feedback from folks!
  I removed all of the radiator stuff and installed a 55 gallon drum with a 195 degree thermostat and a valve in the lower hose to control 'gulping' and a temp gauge with sensor in a bronze tee about 3 inches out from the upper flange.  Things seem to be working fine, so far.  I did about a two hour test run today (no load) and played with the 'anti-gulping' valve - searching for the 'sweet spot'.  I think I'm pretty close -- but of course things will change when I put a load on it.  Right now, the temp gauge slowly goes up to 205 for a moment after the thermostat opens, then drifts down to 195 for a couple of minutes then slowly goes down to 160.  The temp stays there for 2 or 3 minutes, then slowly goes back up to 205 - starting the cycle all over again.  I can control the amount and timing of the temperature swing by playing with the valve.  Still experimenting - but I'm happy with things, so far.  I'm going to check actual cylinder head temp swings with an infra-red temp gauge (as soon as I get one).
  After a two hour run (no load), only the water above the upper hose got hot - about 120 degrees or so.  The lower two thirds of the drum was still cool but getting warmer ever so slowly. -- That'll change with a load, though.
  I'll report back after I've had a chance to thoroughly test things with a load after 5 or 6 hours or so.
                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                             Charlie
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 01:40:41 PM by queenofjacks »

Samo

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2017, 08:01:47 PM »
Nice work Charlie, looks good, I'm sure the gulping will stop once you get a load on
Samo
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queenofjacks

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 03:09:56 PM »
  Finished!! (I think).
   OK, I just finished up everything.  Added a cylinder head temp gauge to track the actual head temp.  Removed all of the battery charging stuff from the Starter/generator system.  Drilled a 1/2 inch hole in mounting base and found a 1/2" handle from a mop (even had a green sleeve on it!).  Used it as a tensioning lever.  Added start button to Connection box on top of Gen head.  Added a 1 amp automatic battery charger/maintainer to keep battery topped up.  Start system is now super simple and works GREAT!  After engine starts, just kick belt off with start handle (no problem).  Foolproof KISS system.  Can still hand crank, if necessary.  Cylinder head temp runs about 180 degrees (no load) - nice and steady.  Thermostat gauge goes up and down - as thermostat opens and closes.  Range is about 140 to 210 degrees - no load.  Will still need to make final adjustments to anti-gulping valve after I get a chance to run it with a load.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 03:43:26 PM by queenofjacks »

xyzer

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 05:07:49 PM »
Queen does your thermostat have a small 3/16" hole in it? The small hole will help with the gulping and eliminates the hot cold opening closing of the thermostat. The hole serves the same purpose as your flow control valve. The thermostat will open fully if needed. The valve could bite you. If the thermostat is full open but can only flow the restricted  valve setting it could get hot eventuality.
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mikenash

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 07:59:15 PM »

"   Queen does your thermostat have a small 3/16" hole in it? The small hole will help with the gulping and eliminates the hot cold opening closing of the thermostat. The hole serves the same purpose as your flow control valve. The thermostat will open fully if needed. The valve could bite you. If the thermostat is full open but can only flow the restricted  valve setting it could get hot eventuality  "

+1 on what XYZer says.  I have seen these machines in operation here in NZ many times just working off what we would call a "44-gallon drum" elevated cooling tank thermosiphon system.  Many have been hard-working machines running sheep-shearing plants that work hard and run for 12 or 14 hours a day for a month or two solid at shearing time.

Although the conventional wisdom is that a diesel likes and needs to run "hot" and to work "hard" to look after the bore etc, none of these machines have thermostats and they don't really seem to care much, over the years, about varying cooling temperatures

IMHO a serious overheat is more likely to stop your machine than a bit of a slow warm-up will ever do . . .

I wouldn't be putting any restrictions in the cooling system myself

Just my $0.02

Hugh Conway

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2017, 08:50:52 PM »
@queenofjacks:  Clean installation.
 Re your starter set-up.......now just replace that starter with a starter/generator from a tractor or golf cart. then you can dispense with the charger and flipping the belt off after a start. Just turn the switch wait for rotation, flip the decompressor and off you go. Works for me. I went with that method after the friction starter could not work due to ice on the flywheels.....Freezing fog froze on the cold iron. My 'Roid is in an open shed, I'm on an island on the Canadian west coast.
Also, I ended up removing the T'stat from my 2 engines and went with smaller capacity cooling systems. One is the old cast iron radiator with a 1 gallon expansion tank in a thermosiphon configuration. Heats up quickly and does not overheat on a 2 to 3 hour run. No fan.
Cheers
Hugh
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queenofjacks

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 01:36:11 PM »
  My Thermostat DOES have the vent hole in it.  Adjusting the valve to control the coolant flow should be no problem (when I finally run it under full load) because I have two temp gauges to help me get it "just right"! 
  As for the Starter --- it IS a Starter/generator from a golf cart.  I previously had it belted up permanently to function as a starter and to charge the battery and drive the cooling fan (when I had the radiator set-up). It needed a voltage regulator and it was problematic -- so I went to the termo-syphon system --- bulletproof simple.  By flipping the belt off after starting, I have one less rotating mass, one less belt to worry about.  Again - Dirt Simple!  The little automatic battery maintainer takes care of the battery just fine. ------ Charlie

Hugh Conway

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 06:04:22 PM »
@queenofjacks
Charlie; I understand and agree with your "simplicity" view. Am wondering what problem you had with the voltage regulation with starter/generator. I leave mine belted up which makes it easier for my wife to operate the machine.
What happens with mine is that after starting, the initial recharge voltage is correct at 14.8, but gradually drops to below battery voltage. I switch it off after a couple of minutes run time to prevent draining the battery. Have not figured that one out. (?)
Cheers,
Hugh
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glort

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 12:05:25 AM »

A simple Voltage regulator available all over ebay for $5 would have fixed the battery fan problem. For redundancy, hook up 3 of the things and run them all together. Wouln't make a difference to their operation or function.

Everyone is certainly entitled to do what they feel best but substituting a valve to control the cooling water for a charge controller for the battery and then relying on a trickle charger to keep it topped up is neither making things more bullet proof or less complicated.

It is merely changing one set of operating procedures and characteristics for another of personal preferences which is fine, but not filling the stated goals to my way of thinking.

If one truly was going to do a "Bullet Proof" setup and dispense with complication,  one would use an air cooled motor and dispense with Thermostats, cooling tanks/ radiator, hoses, coolant/antifreeze, valves and temp gauges. At very least a water cooled engine would be hopper cooled.
The genset would be most likely more reliably driven with a coupler  and be crank started. At least the electric starter would be solid mounted and gear driven. Another parameter to me would be the ability of other people to be able to use the setup. Ideally it should be turn key.
No one unfamiliar with this setup would probably realise they have to fit the belt then remove it again after electric starting. A person that would have trouble crank starting this would also likely struggle with fitting the belt as that would likely take some force and dexterity. 

China Horizontals are set up to meet the stated parameters here with far less complication and can be bought as pre made gensets in this configuration.  I think they really understand what simple is and make their setups as "bullet proof" as possible.

This is a lovely neat setup and would most likely be quite reliable as long as it is maintained which is another issue.  Reality is though it does have complication of it's own and numerous weak points.

queenofjacks

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 01:47:36 PM »
OK, Guys -- One more time!-
  My overall goal is max simplicity and reliability.  The fewer "gizmos and moving parts" - the simpler. Fewer things to fail.  I DID have a quality voltage regulator - and it worked OK - but still had to be adjusted properly or else a dead battery - and then, an overheated engine.  Yeah, I could have finally got it adjusted properly and then no more problems - maybe - hopefully.  I opted for the more tried and proven simpler thermo-siphon cooling system - thus eliminating the requirement for a fan, generator, voltage regulator and battery.  It cranked by hand just fine.  However, that left me with a perfectly good battery and a brand new starter/generator that I paid a lot of bucks for.  I figured that - being as I'm now 75 and not getting any stronger - that I'd put the starter back in service, but make it simpler - for those times that I couldn't crank it by hand - and it works great!  After it's cranked up and running, I no longer need the starter being driven by the engine.  Remember, my runs are for long periods of time - sometimes days - not short battery charging runs of a couple of hours.  That little battery charger/maintainer is about as foolproof as can be.  The anti-gulping valve is about as foolproof as can be, also. -- Charlie

mikenash

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 03:16:35 PM »

Well done  Charlie - you have dug around with the tech, made decisions on what works best for you, and settled on a simple solution that works.  Can't argue with that.  I get it

Folks here always have an opinion to offer, mostly because they are enthusiastic about things; and it's in the nature of opinions that they differ

I take my hat off to you at 75 for still being out there doing it.

Well done

LowGear

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Re: 10/1 Lovson From Radiator to Tank Cooling
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 05:34:17 PM »
I'm with mikenash.  Their way might be smarter, cheaper and easier but my way is the sweetest.  Seeing the different approaches on how to solve a challenge is part of the fun of this site.  The "no grade" learning is another important part.  And then in my case; just wondering what the Hell their writing about is fun too.

As a 73 year old punk I didn't understand the last part of mikenash's post.  It's the alternatives I'm worried about and if I keep busy having fun perhaps they'll pass me by without my notice.  So what's the next project?

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