Any ristrictions lifted on importing listeriods?

[MachineNLectricMan]

Was hoping that when Pruitt took over the EPA this year, some of these ridiculous Listeroid import restrictions would get lifted. Anyone know anything here? Was thinking about retrieving one from Canada if I get up that way.

[38ac]

That would require either lifting diesel standards newer then tier 2 (not going to happen) or a special exception for new but antique design engines  (not going to happen either)  Depending on how far you are from Canada it might be cheaper to build from a parts kit or import a "compressor" than to go after one. In case you didn't know it is no more legal to go get one in Canada and bring it across yourself than it is to import one otherwise. Will the border agent know? you take your chances but if he does you will not only forfeit the engine you will also be fined and charged for destroying it.

[LowGear]

Perhaps if we knew what part of the country you are in someone would offer you a like new one right here from some lonely garage located on the street of bygone dreams.

How much did you hope to beat Dieselman's price by?

[BruceM]

Given the nature of Lister clones/Listeroids and Rajkot QC, also known as Rajkot roulette, I think it would be foolish to not buy from Diesel Electric Services.  They stand behind their products in an outstanding manner, with full parts stock and rapid service.  My only connection is as a volunteer helping a new neighbor with his DES 8/1 kit.  Both tech support and service was what you could only dream of these days from most companies. 

[MachineNLectricMan]

Seems like converting a compressor to an engine is going to be a money pit type project. You would need to change the cam, cam gears, head, and add the entire injection system.

Then there are the no oil pump engines. These engines will be more sensitive to oil level, and anything that thickens the oil. Having an oil pump, and a deep sump might be the big part of why some British Listers were reported to go as long as 40 years. That's 350,400 hours!

I think British iron is going to win here, if one can find it and can afford to buy it.

[AdeV]

Seems like converting a compressor to an engine is going to be a money pit type project. You would need to change the cam, cam gears, head, and add the entire injection system.

I think you misunderstand - it's not a compressor, it's a Listeroid, with a "compressor head". Or more likely without the head. You may need to assemble the valve lifters, you will need to (separately) buy and fit the head, pushrods etc. Lister singles are extremely easy to work on, in this regard, if you can throw a spanner around, you can do it.

[38ac]

As they said you would not be converting an air compressor to an engine, you are making an engine out of what was an engine originally.  The ones I have seen would be a 30 minute job to reinstall the parts. For air compressor duty they remove the push rods, injector and fuel pump and replace the injector with a one way valve.  You still have the sand/slag bad assembly issues to deal with. 

Glort it is unlike you to let something slide by so easily? ,, "a bit high" at 350,000 hours? Why that's not even in the realm of slightest possibility.  Not  even half that many hours ever happend, not even a fourth that many , I dare say not even 10% of that many,, period, end of discussion.  Pure fallacy.  10,000 hours? MAYBE, with excellent care AND timely service AND themost favorable operating conditions.

[BruceM]

Interesting when a newbie without a Lister comes in an spouts opinions out past the left field; this seems plus the brush/brushless post by same makes it smell like trolling to me.

[MachineNLectricMan]

Ya darn right I'm trolling, through deep BS! Seems every time I see a sales pitch for a Listeroid, they always refer to some proverbial Lister engine (never a listeriod) somewhere that lasted 40 years in continuous service without any serious maintenance. Never seen any boots tall enough for that kind of salesmanship. Yea, I'd like to hear what real truth is about that so called 40 year Lister. Was that really 24/7 running or was that engine just "available" continuously.

Now I'm game for any loopholes in importing engines. I did want to see how they got around the fact that the valves on a compressor open every cycle, and a 4 cycle engine every other cycle per valve. This equals a 1:1 cam gear ratio in a compressor v. a 1:2 ratio for an engine.  I know these engines are easy to work on. Certainly not like doing an in chassis overhaul on a modern V8. My question was how much extra does one have to spend to make an engine from one of those "compressors"?

Last I knew, the 6/1's or 8/1's (same engine) don't use liners. So instead of just replacing a liner, ya either have to bore oversize and buy an oversize piston & rings, or replace the entire cylinder. Are there any roids that use liners?

Splash lubrication will work fine if there are no sleeve bearings in the system (such as an upper rod bearing), the bearing is very open and exposed, the bearings are good quality, and the load rating is substantially higher than the actual load cycles on the bearings. Now, do the Chinese or the Indians actually use good quality bearings? LOL Or are the bearing rollers hand made by the local village blacksmith?

Also, all oil, except pure (and true) synthetic, has some traces of wax in it. Ages ago, there used to be jokes about a "Penzoil" engine. I've seen this problem in person, and it is due to the high wax content in the crude stock used to make this oil, even with good refining technology. In an oil system with splash or gravity feed, that has bearings fed with oil channels, there is going to be a clog. This can be aggravated with traces of moisture in the system. In a pressurized system, the pressure tends to purge the wax build up and keep oil flowing to the bearings. That's a big part of why automotive engines, and even steam engines,  all became pressurized oil systems around a century ago. I've done bearing rebuild work on 100's of  tons of large (almost shipyard sized) gravity lubed gearboxes, machines and equipment and have seen this type of failure over and over again.

I wonder if anyone makes a non detergent synthetic oil?

[dieselgman]

Last I knew, the 6/1's or 8/1's (same engine) don't use liners. So instead of just replacing a liner, ya either have to bore oversize and buy an oversize piston & rings, or replace the entire cylinder. Are there any roids that use liners?

Sure there are! But the purists among us prefer the original non-sleeved design.

Splash lubrication will work fine if there are no sleeve bearings in the system (such as an upper rod bearing), the bearing is very open and exposed, the bearings are good quality, and the load rating is substantially higher than the actual load cycles on the bearings. Now, do the Chinese or the Indians actually use good quality bearings? LOL Or are the bearing rollers hand made by the local village blacksmith?

India has long produced high quality bearings... Many brands you will recognize have their origins and/or manufacturing in India - ex. Federal Mogul

By the Way... all BS aside, the original Listers were very well known for lasting through generations in regular operation. This is not continuous running obviously. Parts wear out in fairly predictable patterns... the beauty of this design is in its ability to be serviced/repaired/rebuilt and continue in service for very long-term. 10,000 to 20,000 hour major rebuild intervals would not surprise me in any way when talking about OEM British Lister CS machinery.

dieselgman

[starfire]

I have personal knowledge of a CS Lister that was installed in 1946 in a new milking plant on a farm near Inangahua here in NZ. This engine ran twice a day for 3 hour milkings morning and night, thats 6 hours/day, 7 days/week. It turned the vacuum pump, water pumps and even a cream seperator.
In 1982, grid power arrived to the farm, the engine then went to a south Canterbury sheep farm and ran a shearing plant until 3 years ago  when I condemned it, the old thing was worn out.... not worth buggering with. Shearing saw it run 3 weeks solid once a year, 14 hours a day. It also ran into the evening supplying lights to the cookhouse.
I havent done the maths, but thats a lot of hours.....
Levin and co supplied and serviced it into the 60s, Wright Stevensons & co (now Wrightsons) took over the servicing into the 70s, the documents show no major component replacement other than an injector in 1966, a replacement crank handle in 72, and a  valve grind in 84. The sheep farmer did nothing to it in 30 odd years other than add oil when he thought of it.
Shearing sheds are a likely source of Listers here in NZ, as many shearing sheds are in the back blocks of a farm, and running power is expensive. The intermittent use also guarantees their survival. Lister made shearing handpieces, blades, sharpening machines, overhead shafting, bearing blocks, flat pulleys and belting, even belt dressing, Lister oil, and sandpaper disks. They even made wool presses, and  weigh scales , these likely rebadged from other brands.

[starfire]

As its very unusual to find a documented Lister over such a long time period, I have done some research for any NZ member that may be interested. Levin and co were an importing company starting in the late 1800s, Among other things they were agents for, and  forgive my indulgence....

The agencies for the sale of general merchandise are much too numerous to mention in full, but the following are the most important:—John Hall and Son's blasting and sporting powder, Roburite Explosive Company, Wolseley sheep shearing machines, “White” sewing machines, “Uplands” Ceylon teas, Symington and Co.'s coffee essences, Harraway's rolled oats, Lea and Perrins' sauce, “Crystal” kerosene, Champion's vinegar, Bear and Son's cut tobacco, “Otto de Rose” cigarettes, Dörner's pianos, Gale and Friend's white lead, McCormick reapers and binders, Greenbank Caustic potash and soda, “Toxa” rabbit poison, Little's, Cooper's Hatch's, White's, Quibell's, and Thomas' sheep dips, M. B. Foster and Son's ale and stout, Wm. Edmond's “Pig” ale and stout, Allsopp's “Red Hand” ale and stout, Tennent's ale and stout, Wieland's San Francisco Lager beer, Norwegian Lager beer, Courvoisier's brandy, Clouzeau's brandy, Dessandier's brandy, Faux Fils' and Co's brandy, Martell's brandy, Moet and Chandon's champagne, G. H. Mumm's champagne, Irroy champagne, Heidseck's champagne and Golden Apple cider, Boord and Son's dry gin, rum, and Old Tom, Lemon Hart rum (bulk and case), Catto's, Crawford's Jameson's, Heddle's, Mitchell's, Usher's, Greenlee's, Watson's, and Thom and Cameron's whiskies, Zamoranoy Villar's Teneriffe cigars.

 They would not have personally attended Lister repairs, but would have appointed a service agency in the area.
Its not hard to imagine steamships arriving in Wellington harbour in the 1900s, off loading boxes of stuff imported from far off continents.
I think this company was involved with Valentines, a post WW2 company also in Wellington that were famous for large stocks of war surplus products,  a few  German WW2 submarine "free piston" air compressor engines ended up here on the coast , to operate jack hammers and other coal mining machinery bought from Valentines.
Most coal mines back then were privately owned and operated.

[AdeV]

Well... 6 hours/day for 36 years is pretty close to 80,000 hours, and that's before it's life on the shearing farm. I can only assume that, during those first 36 years, it got reasonably well looked after; and once it was on the shearing farm it got neglected until it died.

Shame to write it off, but I guess that's what neglect does to an engine.

[starfire]

It was only 180 odd years ago we stole this country off the Maoris, I think we gave them a few muskets and some crated booze to keep our conscience straight.
The land was mostly tropical forest, so the Brits came over with their sharpened axes, and  the ones who werent eaten by natives  were allocated land and converted most of the country to farmland.
The Queen visited a few times over the centuries  to piss in the corner much as a dog marks his territory, and we have progressed into what we are today, although like Canada , India and Australia, we are now free of oppressive British rule.
The Chinese  had a big interest here in the early 1900s, with gold and coal mining, they are very hard workers even today.
So, yes , importing would have been the big thing in a relatively new and developing nation, almost everything would have been in great demand, you couldnt really go wrong.
I think I win the off topic competition........

[starfire]

Well, I did go to Ozz once. Flew into Sydney and couldnt believe how big it was, nearly filled my pants, lights from horizon to horizon even at 20000 feet.
Promptly found the domestic aerodrome and went to Western Australia and loved it.
 Big country, like I think 5 hours  to fly there from Sydney.   Took a few days to track down a real Ozzy, most were  Greeks, Italians and Asians,  but all good people I  found.
Ended up in Augusta, Margaret River, Bussleton, the beaches of white squeeky sand, awesome.
Met a young sheila there, she wanted to marry me, got a bit tricky so I came home.
Travel is not without risk.
Met a very interesting old lady, she was a traffic cop in Perth before she retired, and she still would study the maps and bone up on all the new subdivisions  and streets..... and she made me the best chocolate cake I ever tasted with walnuts on top.
Now, if she had asked me to marry  her, I might just have stayed.   
Then I went to Russia, and applied for residency, but was refused. Seems they thought I had a mental illness. Why I asked.
All Russians want to leave, but  you want to stay.
 Had another try a year later, but failed yet again.
That was in year 2000, its changed now.
Clever and cultured  salt of the earth genuine people,  great humour, hospitable, totally honest in deeds and thought.
I would live there in a heartbeat.