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Author Topic: 12/2 clones have arrived...  (Read 7660 times)

dieselgman

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« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 12:53:42 AM by dieselgman »
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dieselgman

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2017, 02:33:30 PM »
Sand in the crevices, requiring balancing, attention to all the little details... standard expectations for anything coming out of Rajkot these days.

Yep, that metal flake racing paint makes them run so much better!  ;)   

These are offered as kits and expected to be gone through carefully to bring up to Western standards for longevity.

dieselgman
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38ac

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 01:44:50 PM »
Twins, either clone or OEM make the heart go pitter patter ;D.  Those must be the high end jobs since they got metal flake paint and RED fuel tanks?? LOL

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listard-jp2

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2017, 01:35:48 PM »
Are they supplied in the partially assembled state to reduce the volume of the packing case (hence reducing shipping costs), or is a mechanism to side step EPA import restrictions?

dieselgman

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 02:00:43 AM »
It is all about remaining within the bounds of our current laws.

Does it make any sense? Probably not, but it is a workable compromise.

The packing does allow for smaller crating and somewhat easier shipping.

dieselgman
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mike90045

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 07:47:27 AM »
re the Clone Kits

What's the internal balance (if any) inside the crankcase, or is it all lumps on the flywheel ?

dieselgman

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2017, 11:03:48 AM »
The spoked flywheels on this model have fairly large balancing weights cast into them opposing the crank throws.

dieselgman
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38ac

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2017, 01:00:30 PM »
I have never seen an Indian twin that has internal balance weights but my experience with them is limited to a dozen or so.  It would be an improvement over the flywheel weights for sure. The twins are much harder to get settled down  because the flywheels are so far apart and the weight is on opposite sides. When you get enough offset weight in them to stop them from moving around a horizontal axis centered at the middle main bearing  they start rotating around a vertical axis centered in the same place. Lots of things going on  with a twin that make them vibrators including the uneven  firing.
 They are however nice engines up to about 600 RPM  at which point they start misbehaving .
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listard-jp2

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 05:54:47 PM »
/\ Completely agree with you, as the twin cylinder version having crank pins set at 180 degrees apart combined with flywheel balance weights creates a rocking couple that is in direct proportion to the engine speed and horizontal distance between the flywheel and the crank pin. Which as observed limits the top speed of the Listeriod engines due to the generally poor or in most cases non existent balancing procedures.

On more sophisticated Lister engines JP CD FR these all had bolt on internal balance weights, hence allowing higher speeds.

When you get enough offset weight in them to stop them from moving around a horizontal axis centered at the middle main bearing  they start rotating around a vertical axis centered in the same place.

Correct again, and that is the compromise which must always be made when balancing one of these engines, the uneven firing intervals do nothing to improve matters either. Which is why there is the age old debate about having crank pins set at 180 degrees or having crank pins set as a split twin (as in Triumph parallel twin motorcycle engines). The major downside for split twin engines is the high loads imposed on the centre main bearing.



dieselgman

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 05:31:55 AM »
In their more modern versions Lister experimented with what they called odd-fire and even-fire arrangements (in 2-cylinder and 4-cylinder engines). This amounts to the same thing described as opposing crank throws vs matched crank throws (split-twins?).

I do not have any analysis of their results... but except for some natural gas prototypes, I see they kept the odd-fire arrangement.

dieselgman
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38ac

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 02:00:00 PM »
I took delivery of one of these twins and did the quick inspection before shrink wrapping it for later.  Assembly practice in general is above average, Gear lash is perfect. Clearances by the wiggle test method all passed. Individual parts seem to be well machined and finished.  I didnt poke and prod much for sand because it is an assumption that it is there but the insides were not filthy as I have come to expect lately.  All and all pleased with it but again, based upon a 30 minute inspection with only a bit a disassembly. 
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highroad281

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 06:07:18 PM »
I took delivery of one of these twins and did the quick inspection before shrink wrapping it for later.  ...  All and all pleased with it but again, based upon a 30 minute inspection with only a bit a disassembly.

Does this mean we might see a detailed build thread for Indian twins?!!!    :D

I'll beg if necessary!

38ac

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 02:35:58 AM »
Well, if there is enough interest I might be able to do one over the winter. I have a 16/2 DES clone here also that's been waiting a long time for a spot in the shop, and a 10/2 Lister, and a class M Ruston, and a Petter S 12/14 and a,,,,,
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dieselgman

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2017, 02:26:07 PM »
We are long-time Lister/Petter distributors. These kits along with hundreds of others are always on offer as well as substantial parts stocks.

If you want a unit professionally finished out and delivered, that can be had via 38AC. If you just wanted a kit for your own assembly and enjoyment contact me directly gary@dieselgen.com.  :laugh:

dieselgman
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38ac

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Re: 12/2 clones have arrived...
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2017, 01:37:59 PM »
I forgot to add that the 12/2 is equipped with 8/1 type plugs instead of change over valves. This seems to be a common change these days. Maybe the hut where they made the valves blew over?? ;D
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