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Author Topic: Oh oh I turned a berring  (Read 3220 times)

Mr X

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Oh oh I turned a berring
« on: August 04, 2017, 05:31:48 PM »
Last week I heard a noise I thought was a bearing in my gen head. I took it to a rebuild guy and he said it the bearing was turning in the housing end but managed to fix it for 375.00 . OK I hook it up and fire up my roid and an hour later it quits .so restarting it I notice there is some strange thump and bump and an ugly growel. Now what, I take off the sump inspection plate and lay down and slowly turn the flywheel. I notice the joint of the Conrod cank bearing is following the crank around. Shit! I've spun a bearing,  and I see my sump magnets are full of metal grinding.  I see the cotter pin on the far side king nut is missing, also the spacer on the front side of the bearing she'll is missing. The end of the oil finger is ground down. I see the crank is badly scared and any babet is long gone and now metal on metal. Damn I've only got 10500 hr on it it can't be over. I don't have much money and all the proper fixes involve money. I'm going to try an Indian fix, what ever that is. But I'll try and smooth the crank with emmerory cloth. Not sure how maybe spin the crank with 1/2 in drill and try and follow with a long strip of emmerory.  Maybe I can clean it enough that it will work. So what if I have to check bearing every oil change, it may work I'm sure crude fixes have been done on these old engines, any body got any suggestions that won't cost much. I know a new crank is about 250.00 and probably near as much for shipping. Machine shop would charge about the same.

MR X
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 05:34:45 PM by Mr X »
6/1 PS Jkson soon to run WVO,  3 hp Petter, 3 Honda 5 hp, 1 weed eater, Live off grid, Now a dog farmer

George A

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2017, 05:51:50 PM »
Only 10,500 hours?? Why man, it's just getting limbered up!

I just went through this whole scenario with an antique Delco Light generator crank. The crank throw was absolute toast, complete with lumps, bumps and scarring. But it WAS round, miracle of miracles.

I controlled my fear and tried an old time fix from ancient auto days. I clamped two aluminum blocks together and bored a hole between them that was the projected (read, best guess) size of the finished bearing. I then spun the crank a moderate speed between centers on my lathe while clamping grit cloth and LOTS of oil between the aluminum blocks. After SIX HOURS of constant "grinding" and changing grit cloths, I ended up with an acceptable surface. It still had a couple of very minor grooves but there was at least 90% decent bearing surface and was round. Since I'm pouring a new babbitt bearing anyway, an odd size really doesn't matter.

As for using a drill to spin your engine over, I'd rather rig up a small electric motor and belt to one of the flywheels since I suspect the drill will burn up before you're finished.

The point is, that's doing it the hard way. A professional crank grinder might have charged $100 or so, but the surface would be absolutely perfect AND ground to a standard undersize to boot....in other words, like it or not it's worth the money. The biggest question is, can you get oversize rod bearings to fit the new crank surface? If not, there are babbitting services available in the antique auto hobby. You'd end up with and odd sized crank pin and a custom (but re-pourable) rod bearing, so not the end of the world.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 05:59:56 PM by George A »
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

BruceM

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2017, 06:39:13 PM »
One of our members with a similar problem made aluminum sheet bearings, with the theory that the wearing aluminum would make aluminum oxide and polish off the crank pin. He reported success and did continue running it for some time after.   

Perhaps someone could remember his handle here; I think he was somewhere in the S. Hemisphere, Ausie, NZ, or ???

His thread had a fair amount of detail on this crude but effective zero machining approach. 



Mr X

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2017, 07:32:25 PM »
I have 10-25-20 over size  bearings now but as to get more not sure. You figure only a hundred to get her Ground?  I'll have to check, I have all this free fuel to burn I'd hate to waste it. But man what a bunch of work to fix it. I'm getting tired of fixing, but as they say ain't no free lunch, I can either buy gas or fix it and run for free. Humm!  Either way my roid has  to come out of the closet it's in so I may start there and see if I can build some enthusiasm  for the project, thanks for the ideas.

X
6/1 PS Jkson soon to run WVO,  3 hp Petter, 3 Honda 5 hp, 1 weed eater, Live off grid, Now a dog farmer

dieselspanner

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2017, 09:49:13 PM »
It was Starfire, from New Zealand, quite a big thread on the subject.

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

dieselspanner

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2017, 09:51:52 PM »
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

George A

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 09:55:54 PM »
Thanks for finding that Stef...........good thing he did an excellent write up, since that photo outfit erased all accounts. Now they want MONEY for their services.......
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

38ac

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2017, 10:06:02 PM »
I have seen big end inserts as much as .090 under advertised from India sources. DES stocks some undesize but not sure just what. Around these parts you could get it ground for less than $100. You con rod will need resized at the least and could be toast but they are relatively cheap. Probably the biggest draw back to the repairs will be the downtime. First the crank and rod would go to a shop where things are measured up , then you have to find out IF that undersized is available. They will likely not have specs so t they wont grind the crank until they have a good rod and the insert at hand.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 10:07:54 PM by 38ac »
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Mr X

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2017, 02:31:19 PM »
I talked to the engine rebuild place and they figure 150.00 I guess not too bad, so soon I'll start tearing her down.
6/1 PS Jkson soon to run WVO,  3 hp Petter, 3 Honda 5 hp, 1 weed eater, Live off grid, Now a dog farmer

BruceM

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2017, 04:07:54 PM »
That's good news, Mr X. That's really the best solution.

dieselgman

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Re: Oh oh I turned a berring
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 05:45:32 AM »
Quote
I have seen big end inserts as much as .090 under advertised from India sources. DES stocks some undesize but not sure just what. Around these parts you could get it ground for less than $100. You con rod will need resized at the least and could be toast but they are relatively cheap. Probably the biggest draw back to the repairs will be the downtime. First the crank and rod would go to a shop where things are measured up , then you have to find out IF that undersized is available. They will likely not have specs so t they wont grind the crank until they have a good rod and the insert at hand.

To my recollection, we should have stock to .060" ... but nothing over that. Maybe can special order something bigger.

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