Author Topic: Stamford generator head  (Read 2746 times)

quinnbrian

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Stamford generator head
« on: February 21, 2017, 08:22:56 AM »
Hello everyone,
As you may recall I pick up old Lister SR2, with a Stamford gen head, sometime back in the summer months. Anyways haven't got to the rebuild on the SR2 yet...but it coming!!
My  home and shop are both off grid. The house has a full set up...batteries, solar, gen...etc. But the shop...not so much. I've been using an old Honda 5000, when it's needed. But a couple of days ago, I bought a small electric air compressor ( smaller then the 4 cylinder DV that has another SR2 on it) to do some air tool work in the shop. I have a sander,grinder, board sander, paint spray gun...you get the picture, not any big air tools, but ones that do take a bit of air.
But what I found is the little Honda 5000, don't like to run my new to me ,small air compressor...it will...but just barely, so I have a cheap..Jap 10 Kw ,that has very little hours on it, that I keep for my number 3 back up, for my back up genset :-) . So I got it out of storage , check everything, started right up, seem to run good, let it warm up, oil was new, when it was put in storage, so everything was great. Ran the shop compressor great! Until, the big bang!! The rod went though the top of the motor, and was laying on the gas tank!!!?? So o well never like it ...from the day,I bought it on sale.
So I took the SR2 off the Dv compressor and mount it on the Stamford gen head base. It took like 5 minutes, with the skid steer and some lifting straps. I'm glade I got the whole genset, and if anyone remember, the price was right!! I paid shipping..and got the Lister for FREE :-) from another member on this site , thank you very much, Mr Hugh...again!!

My problem is I can't get any power out of the gen head...I think I have it wired right, (Mr Hugh) also sent me the wiring diagram, and I'm usually pretty good at wiring thing up....but this one has me stumped.
I'm just not getting any output . I do get a reading of around 10-20 volts ( it slowly drops, as you hold the probes on the leds). Any ideas...do I need to  re-magnetize the field...or??
The gen head is a Stamford "D" range ac self exciting , number 8 frame, 4 wire, 220/115  rated at 8000 or 9000 watt (don't have the name plate in front of me).
And is it possible to install a newer type AVR, everything looks a little old and aged, if so..how would I go about doing so.
If anyone can help, that would be great! If anyone would like a copy of the manual for this gen head,( it cover the Stamford #8 and #10 frame from the 1970's) or think it would help , in helping out of my little problem. I can send you a copy if they wish.
Thanks, for all the great help ...in the past, and for years to come. One of these days, maybe , I'll be able to help others, and keep the old Lister alive!
Cheers
Brian

And Dieselgman , I'm going to be looking for a reverse rotation starter...or part number to get one. This SR2 has the ring gear, but no electric start, and at -10 I think it could be lots of fun trying to start .
  
  
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 08:28:42 AM by quinnbrian »

broncodriver99

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 01:58:16 PM »
Cummins now owns Stamford. They do have all of the records for the older gen heads. I have an ES series alternator and emailed them about it. They replied with a copy of the manual and wiring diagrams. Took a day or two. Here is their contact info. https://stamford-avk.com/contact
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 02:06:56 PM by broncodriver99 »

broncodriver99

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 02:43:06 PM »
Doh, just noticed you already have a manual. Oops.

dieselgman

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 02:58:15 PM »
Brian,

The SR models from the 1970s often had Prestolite starters (with only mechanical engagement). They would sometimes get stuck if the engine did not start and kick the gear back into the starter. These are now basically obsolete and replaced with Delco MT series starters.

If you have the ring gear in place, you are almost there. Just add a Delco spacer and studs and an appropriate Delco starter model for your engine rotation. You will need to identify the engine rotation as viewed from flywheel end...

dieselgman
Ford Powerstroke, Caterpillar 3304, Cummins M11, Too many Listers to count...

quinnbrian

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 10:30:23 PM »
Brian,

The SR models from the 1970s often had Prestolite starters (with only mechanical engagement). They would sometimes get stuck if the engine did not start and kick the gear back into the starter. These are now basically obsolete and replaced with Delco MT series starters.

If you have the ring gear in place, you are almost there. Just add a Delco spacer and studs and an appropriate Delco starter model for your engine rotation. You will need to identify the engine rotation as viewed from flywheel end...

dieselgman

Thanks Dieselgman, I have the adapter and studs, and it was an original start-o-matic.....that I got to about a year too late. The guy I bought it off of removed the gen head, proceeded to cut all the copper out of it . O well that's how it goes, anyway so it is a reverse rotation model.

quinnbrian

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 09:11:52 PM »
Well got the old Stamford gen head going today. But the volts are a little high...like 131 volts a leg..everything runs ...no start up leg on the air compressor. So I'm thinking ...slow down the SR2 , just a little and should be good to go...? right?
Also the SR2 I have it on,I pick up about 2 years ago. I had robbed in injector out of it, when the house gen cracked a injector nozzle , so I had to put a new injector in it and reseal the valve cover, and as I was cleaning up the heads I notice that one head had SR stamp on it and the other said HR has anyone ever hear of such a thing? And will it hurt the motor, I have about 50 hours on it .

dieselgman

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 11:45:38 PM »
Firstly, HR parts will not even come close to fitting your SR... so that stamping must be erroneous.

Secondly, Do not try to alter your output voltage by changing generator speed. Your unit should be adjusted for either 1500rpm 50Hz, or 1800rpm and 60Hz at the engine governor. Once that setting is achieved, then you would go to the finer adjustments on the AVR control to get your output voltage adjusted within your desired range.

dieselgman
Ford Powerstroke, Caterpillar 3304, Cummins M11, Too many Listers to count...

quinnbrian

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 02:04:09 AM »
Firstly, HR parts will not even come close to fitting your SR... so that stamping must be erroneous.

Secondly, Do not try to alter your output voltage by changing generator speed. Your unit should be adjusted for either 1500rpm 50Hz, or 1800rpm and 60Hz at the engine governor. Once that setting is achieved, then you would go to the finer adjustments on the AVR control to get your output voltage adjusted within your desired range.

dieselgman

OK thanks Diesegman,

It does talk (in the manual) about adjusting the transformer air gap..but I don't know where that would be...I know where the transformer is...but can't see any gap to adjust. Unless it's the gap , between the top of the transformer and the top laminate steel plates...other then that..I don't know...And the only reason that I thought..maybe slowing down the engine would work is..I don't really know if the motor is actually , doing 1800 rpm..don't have a tack.
But when I tested both legs they where at 131 volts.
Would it hurt anything running at this voltage. It's used for my shop, so skill saw, air compressor (5hp running)  ,welder (older)....
I know..I don't know a lot about gen heads, but it's something I need to learn about..and quickly! My ST10 Kw went down last night, so I put the Honda 5000 on charge duty..well that did work so well. Too small, but it worked , sort of. Got the ST10 , up and running today...bad brush..replace and good to go. But if the AVR goes south I don't know how to test..or bypass, if I could, and the rectifier well I guess you can see what I'm going though.
I know the basics ...how a generator works winding, field , but when it come to the AVR...I thought they where best used on a gas gensets to let the engine know that the load has increase..so up the engine rpm to compensate for rpm lost. And on , and on...need to find some more good info,on how to work on and test a generator.

I'm new (only 5 years off grid) so lots to learn.  If I could weld it, make a fiberglass mold and part, rebuild an old 350 small block...take a transmission apart and rebuild it, I'm guessing that I could..hopefully..learn a little more electrical how to. I hope..

And the SR and HR head thing...I knew I should have taken a pic...before I put new valve gaskets down....I just knew it LOL, what first brought it to my attention, was the heads where different, the one is just a little longer than the other, and the injectors where different, one was as, all the rest I have on my SR motors and the other was not like the other 5 spares I have.
If the weather stay good I'll take it back apart and get some pics and the injector too. I've never tried to post pic on here, but I can link some if required.

Thanks for all the help
Cheers
Brian
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 02:17:47 AM by quinnbrian »

quinnbrian

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2017, 03:01:30 AM »
Hello all,
So I did a lot of searching on the net, and came across a post on another web site, http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=1604.0  which makes things a little clearer on the air gap on a transformer, I know what there used for..but couldn't find where it was located on my transformer. Everyone that I've looked at ( transformer with air gap ) has had a cut out on the side( one side) like a slot, or where there was two halve spaced apart. My transformer in my Stamford has the air gap on the top , where as the entire top , is unbolted and move up or down to increase or decrease the air gap. Or at least ..I think it does.. The air gap is suppose to be 0.5 mm or 0.020 in.
But I also read the with a transformer type induction system that the volts will also rise , under heavy load...when I tested my gen head it was under a heavy load ( just started my air compressor)....or maybe not...about 8amp of 220 volts where required, as per the name plate on the air compressor.I know start up would be a lot higher ... maybe 12-16 amps, So the question would be...will it rise up to 131 volts per line under this big of a load??.... I don't know, but I'm going to find out.
The temp drop to -15 over night...a far cry from the +15 it was the day before, and it going down to -18 tonight, and stay at -12 tomorrow and then back up in the plus in a couple of day. The weather we've been having is crazy!
The gen is outside ...unheated, so I'll leave it as is until warmer weather. I did start it yesterday afternoon, put a blow torch in the intake and rolled it over, warmed up the chambers a little, and got it going, used it for an hour or so.
Making a little head way.... better then going backwards ..  :-)

vdubnut62

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2017, 05:39:14 AM »
I have seen the mains power here run up to 130 volts, evidently it doesn't hurt anything. I've been here 30plus years and only lost an appliance due to lightning and just wear (dishwasher, clothes washer, dryer, water heater leaks etc.) I think low voltage is much more damaging. I would keep an eye on Hz and call the voltage good enough.
Ron.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.


The fine art of B.S. is not found in what is said, but in its plausibility.

quinnbrian

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Re: Stamford generator head
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2017, 01:43:54 PM »
I have seen the mains power here run up to 130 volts, evidently it doesn't hurt anything. I've been here 30plus years and only lost an appliance due to lightning and just wear (dishwasher, clothes washer, dryer, water heater leaks etc.) I think low voltage is much more damaging. I would keep an eye on Hz and call the voltage good enough.
Ron.

That's good to know Ron, thanks for your reply.
Cheers
Brian