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Author Topic: counterfeit hardware  (Read 7476 times)

mike90045

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counterfeit hardware
« on: January 10, 2017, 05:56:45 PM »
Dam counterfeit hardware.  Broken mount bolt on the generator.  This set lasted about 25 hours    Genuine Grade5 gives me over 500 hours before they fatigue and get replaced.  Back to Ace for more junk parts from china.  And then I place a $10 order to mcmaster-carr for real parts and get to pay $20 shipping for 10 years worth of spares.
And that's why off-grid living requires 2 generators, having one would mean the lamb and pork in the freezer goes bad.
 http://www.choice-distribution.com/BoltsCanKill.aspx

broncodriver99

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2017, 07:45:18 PM »
Unfortunately it is becoming more and more of a problem. I see guys going crazy with "stainless" hardware in some of my other hobbies. Unless I buy stainless from somewhere like Fastenal it always seems to be more like Chinese tempered lead and the heads seem to twist right off the second you apply a wrench to them. Although I did get some Indian made bolts with my gas tank kit that were worse, they had the consistency of hard taffy and weren't even straight. I had a good chuckle before I tossed them in the trash.

Traceability seems to be the name of the game these days.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 07:53:46 PM by broncodriver99 »

guest23837

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2017, 10:49:30 PM »
I bought a 3/4" to 1/2" socket adapter yesterday, supposed to be for an impact gun I put it on a bar and it snapped on 1st use. Brought it back and got a replacement which also snapped. The brand? Tuftool. Country of origin Taiwan. Tuftool, NOT recommended by me!

32 coupe

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 11:49:21 PM »
As some of you know I work on private yachts.
My biggest gripe is the quality of so called stainless steel.  
It's not just nuts and bolts. Anything stainless is just junk anymore.

I went to bolt something together last week with new nuts, bolts and washers. It was an
electric motor on a water maker that slides to adjust the belt, gently tighten the bolts, loosen
to readjust for proper belt tension, and realize the bolts were galled. Couldn't tighten them or loosen
them. Had to grind of the heads to get it apart and replace the new nuts and bolts.

I grew up working on cars, mostly foreign brands, so yes I am very aware of torque specs and have
always been leery of over tightening things. I remember seeing a book years ago on MG'S that had
a line that said " these cars are not made for heavy handed mechanics". Lesson learned.

Anyway, yes the quality has gone to crap. I've said for years I would gladly pay more.for quality.
It's a sad state we are in.

Don't get me started on battery's. That's another sore spot.



Gary

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mikenash

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2017, 07:35:15 AM »
As some of you know I work on private yachts.
My biggest gripe is the quality of so called stainless steel.  
It's not just nuts and bolts. Anything stainless is just junk anymore.

I went to bolt something together last week with new nuts, bolts and washers. It was an
electric motor on a water maker that slides to adjust the belt, gently tighten the bolts, loosen
to readjust for proper belt tension, and realize the bolts were galled. Couldn't tighten them or loosen
them. Had to grind of the heads to get it apart and replace the new nuts and bolts.

I grew up working on cars, mostly foreign brands, so yes I am very aware of torque specs and have
always been leery of over tightening things. I remember seeing a book years ago on MG'S that had
a line that said " these cars are not made for heavy handed mechanics". Lesson learned.

Anyway, yes the quality has gone to crap. I've said for years I would gladly pay more.for quality.
It's a sad state we are in.

Don't get me started on battery's. That's another sore spot.



Gary



Y'know down here at the Bottom of the World we had a big earthquake a few years back killed a couple of hundred people when some buildings fell down; and that has, inevitably, made us ask a bunch of questions around design, component certification, "test certificates" from China wherein we have found that the paper they're printed on has the same structural integrity as the steel they are "certifying" etc etc (we had a batch of "earthquake certified" structural steel reinforcing mesh recently which, when independently tested, failed at 7% of the load it was supposed to withstand) and so on and so on - a familiar story to any engineer

BUT - several prominent structural engineers have commented that the elephant in the room is the fasteners.  What good is excellent, locally-produced, well-designed steel structural work when the "Grade 8" bolts holding it all together are made of cheese?

Next time we have another big earthquake those Chinese bolts may well kill a bunch more folks who had taken care to live and work in new, "post-quake-standard" "safe" buildings . . .

I have a big stash here of M14 bolts and nuts - an odd, Italian size which we have inherited with "Caprari" Italian made pumps, and i have been using them where otherwise I would previously have used an M12 fastener - no failures at all.

Just my $0.02

Cheers, Mike

dieselgman

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2017, 10:49:42 AM »
Our assembly hardware is primarily from Fastenal (Lister/Petter OEM)... I hope their product maintains a premium quality standard. So far, no significant hardware problems noted here in the US. Our Lister production & rebuild operation is completely dependent on that quality and we have around $25,000 invested just in that line of nut and bolt hardware. I don't know what the new Lister/Petter Group is doing with regards to their new manufacturing now... time will tell.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:51:56 AM by dieselgman »
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mikenash

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2017, 06:29:03 PM »
That 7% was a test on some "certified" "earthquake standard" reinforcing mesh.  LOOKS OK just sitting there, and ties up OK etc etc, but snaps almost immediately when "pull" tested instead of stretching

LowGear

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2017, 06:37:56 PM »
This is great news for me.  I thought I was holding the wrenches wrong.  I don't do projects like many of the masters here on LF but I do like to have them proceed smoothly.  I now pre-lube most all of my stainless projects.  The tropics middle name is stainless even though it's a bit temperamental and not the best choice for motor mounts.  We do have a Fastenal here in Kona and we are on a first name basis.  OK, his name is Casey too. 

It's nice to hear a chorus.

Casey
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mikenash

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 08:32:47 AM »
As someone who buys and consumes engineering products, I see the circular process happening:

(a) Things are made cheaply in China so people buy them although they are crap . . .

(b) Manufacturers making decent stuff find themselves priced out of the market and eventually stop making stuff or just import it from China and put stickers on with their brand name . . .

(c) Consumers who eventually become sick of buying crap over and over again and finally come to the conclusion they'd be better off paying more for a good quality item, finally stop & look around but find that because they have been buying crap all these years the guys who used to make good stuff have stopped doing so

(d) consumers continue to buy crap because what choice is there ?

Example:  The Hitachi and/or Metabo power tools we use every day were described recently by Consumer Magazine as "excellent" because they will last a couple of years or so (we usually get about 18 months out of an angle grinder or a rattle gun).  Once upon a time a Black and Decker drill would last a lifetime

Guess I'm becoming an old fart

broncodriver99

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 01:37:33 PM »
Guess I'm becoming an old fart

You are not alone. I find myself saying "turn that **** down" and "kids these days" a lot more often.  ;D

EdDee

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 03:11:14 PM »
What a bunch of G.O.F.'s you are.... (Geriatric old farts....)

The kids are shit scared when I come into the house and their music music is playing above "average comfortable" volume...(Above average comfortable volume is defined as when amp/speaker distortion forms a notable part of the music, something kids seem immune to.... The louder, the better, regardless of quality of sound....)

My solution when it happens: Turn on MY h-ifi kit....Technics 2Kw RMS with Boston speaker set.... Rattle the roof tiles to the dulcet tones of Led Zepplin or Black Sabbath....

Soon the house becomes very tranquil..... Dunno why?

Lol
Ed
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mikenash

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 08:23:02 PM »
I have found Rammstien's "Du Hast" to be very effective at 11 out of 10 on the dial - especially if the bass drum notes crack a few teenage windscreens nearby . . .

broncodriver99

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Re: counterfeit hardware
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2017, 12:39:12 AM »
I have found Rammstien's "Du Hast" to be very effective at 11 out of 10 on the dial - especially if the bass drum notes crack a few teenage windscreens nearby . . .

Check out Mein Teil and Ich Will. They will rattle some stuff.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 12:44:04 AM by broncodriver99 »