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Author Topic: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE  (Read 16721 times)

listard-jp2

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LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« on: May 23, 2016, 10:21:12 AM »
Sometime in the past dieselgman opined the following:

"How much $$$ would you be willing to pony up if you could purchase a true replica (perhaps as parts) of one of these Dursleys - recast from an untouched original sample and closely monitored for top quality control?"

With the exception of the QA observation this is basically what the Indians have been trying to do for the last 60 years, i.e. sell a reverse engineered product based upon original Lister CS engine component parts.
As the Indians have well demonstrated, this process is fraught with many difficulties. Unless you have access to highly specialist measuring equipment it’s very easy to miss say a 0.020” radius in the bottom of that piston ring groove, or a 0.4 Ra surface finish on that bearing journal, etc.
Then you have to be prepared to cut up original components for material analysis and tensile testing / Charpy impact testing etc. (I can’t see anyone wanting to do that to genuine Lister CS parts)
Finally on top of all that you need to have access to raw materials (steel and cast iron) which meet the required quality standards.


Then a few days later dieselgman offered up another particularly sagacious piece of advice
I would think the 8/1 would be a good first project along these lines because it would have the widest appeal and probable demand as a genset build.  


On this observation I could not agree more, because possibly more importantly than the above, if this engine was to be reproduced (due to the high degree of parts commonality). It would then be relatively easy to then go on to recreate 6/1, 5/1, 3.5/1, and 16/2 engines, with minimal extra manufacturing effort.

Now this is where it gets potentially very interesting for all you Lister CS forum members, because I have been quietly working away under the RADAR, and after expending a lot of time, effort, and not inconsiderable money. I now have a near complete set of drawings [copied from originals] for the most recent build 01 Lister CS 8/1 engine.
After considerable work on my part, these drawings are now an electronic format (PDF) of the original drawings.
Seeing how the interest in the CS engine has grown in the last 10 years, together with the Indian sourced aftermarket spares that largely supports it. It was my intention as a retirement hobby to go into very limited production of some of the more popular parts using these drawings as the starting point, and therefore offer a substantially better quality product than the Indians could ever hope to produce, but with comparable prices to the Indian product. However a major change in my personal circumstances now makes this a remote possibility.
Hence I am looking to monetise the investment I have made to date in getting this far with this project.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 10:46:09 AM by listard-jp2 »

listard-jp2

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 10:29:29 AM »
Here are the key points that any prospective buyer needs to bear in mind (there may be more which I will add as they occur to me):

1.   I will only offer this up once on this forum for your consideration.

2.   The drawings that are on offer are now all in an electronic format (PDF files) therefor I will not be offering up the original drawings from which they were scanned. This pack consists of 271  

        files and 331 mega-bytes of information. The drawing pack will be supplied to the winning bidder on an external hard drive.

3.   There are some missing drawings, as follows:

        a.   Drawings of studs are not present, but going on information gleaned from other threaded component drawings  which are present (material grade would typically be EN8 and thread
                specifications would be British Standard 84 close fit on the casting end and class 2a fit on the nut end of the stud) it would not take rocket scientist levels of intelligence to produce
                manufacturing drawings for these items

        b.   Drawings of the consumable items are not present (nor would I expect them to be) but they are listed on the respective specification sheets

        c.   Other drawings that you would expect to see such as the: cast iron fuel filter assembly, 3-way water drain valve S178, tappet guide hold down clamp 003-00389, cylinder block side
                plates 008-24213 and 008-02021 and gasket 026-00112, rocker arm striking pad 010-03015.  Are all not present because Lister eliminated these items by either redesigning these areas of
                the engine or eliminating these items due to cost reduction and rationalization studies towards the end of the production life of this engine (which is where in time this batch of drawings
                originated from).

        d.   The remaining missing drawings are not significant, and are: Crankcase breather reed valve 021-00112, Aluminium rocker cover 008-03026/001, oil sump drain plug 003-00140, camshaft
                oil plug 008-02006, governor spring 079-00192,  oil pump delivery pipe GA drawing (drawings of nut and nipple present) 008-02187, fuel pump tappet lock nut 027-00864, governor
                upper lever (stamping drawing present) 008-06056, wrist  pin circlips (arguably a consumable item)  008-04010, crankshaft oil thrower rings (these were present only on the 8/1 and
                16/2 engines, but are also found on LD, SL, LR and SR engines) 201-12240, tappet fixing screw 008-02129, tappet fixing screw locknut 008-00017, oil pipe locknut 027-00017, oil pipe
                straight 003-00273/003

4.   The forging / hot stamping / cold stamping outline drawings with the exception of the rocker arm and push rod are all present.

5.   Some of the cast items have casting outline drawings present

6.   To preserve confidentiality, this will take the form of a sealed bid auction, and interested bidders will need to submit their bid to an email address I have set up just for this specific purpose.
      
        This email address is listercsdrawings at gmail dot com NOTE! at becomes @ and dot becomes a full stop. THE SEALED BID AUCTION WILL RUN UNTIL THE END OF JUNE 2016.


7.   I already have serious interest from other parties outside of this forum, but out of consideration to Lister CS forum members I am also offering this up here.

8.   Whoever wins the sealed bid auction can be assured these drawings will not appear elsewhere  at a later date (hence preserving the value of the winning bidders investment), however I reserve
        the right to reactivate my plans to go into very limited production of some of the more popular parts using these drawings. If by some remote chance my personal circumstances improve in the
        future, and hence once again making this a viable possibility for me.

9.   I do not have the time or inclination to part out this drawing pack, so please do not ask for a price for an individual drawing(s). If this is your intention I can only suggest you club together
        with other Lister CS forum members and make a joint offer for the whole lot and if successful subsequently part the drawings out amongst yourselves as you see fit.
 
10.   Most of the drawings are in very good readable condition. However I have had to use digital manipulation techniques to tidy up some of the drawings, which showed signs of deterioration, all
        of the drawings are readable, but some would benefit from redrawing, the two that best fall into this category are the: crankcase (due to the sheer amount of hidden detail and dimensions that
        are present on the drawing ), and cylinder head (due to degradation of the original drawing, the sheer amount of hidden detail and dimensions that are present on the drawing ).

11.   Some of these drawings were redrawn by Listers using CAD, and as part of this process imperial dimensions were subsequently converted into metric.

12.   Where relevant the component drawings always refer out to the relevant British standards i.e. BS970: steel grades and material composition, BS84: Whitworth thread specifications.

13.   If the highest bid price does not meet my expectations, I reserve the right to withdraw these items from sale at any time.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 10:43:17 AM by listard-jp2 »

listard-jp2

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 10:37:50 AM »
Also note:

If at the end of this process I accept the winning bid, the winning bidder will then have the opportunity to make further offers on any or all of the following information packages:

1.   Complete set of detailed engine accessory drawings and specifications, for Lister CS 8/1 build 01 engine. Accessories are: air filters, silencer, fuel tank, flat belt pulleys, starting handle, cooling
        water tank arrangements, suggested foundation arrangements and holding down bolts, drawings of engine transfers, and tool list.

2.   Build 01 GA drawings for 8/1 and 16/2 engines, showing key maximum external dimensions.

3.   A feasibility study conducted by Lister concerning the possible supply of Indian cloned Lister CS engines using the Lister name and distribution network. Which consisted of the following
        activities:

        •   Obtaining an Indian manufactured engine from one of the more reputable manufacturers. Produce a visual inspection and strip report (which also detailed damage caused by poor quality
                control during initial assembly of the engine). Crankcase and other castings cleaned internally to remove any residual casting contaminants, and reassemble the engine using only Indian
                sourced consumable items (gaskets, piston rings, big end bearings,  and oil seals, which came with the engine, as part of the spares package).

        •   Run the Indian engine; on a 200hr WOT dynamometer test. Note! The Indian engine required constant nursing and numerous failed parts replacing with further Indian sourced parts to
                get it through the test.

        •   Remove engine from dynometer, and produce another strip report, and reassemble and extensively blue print the engine. Replace any worn or defective components using only Indian
                ‘export quality’ sourced spare parts as required.

        •   Repeat 200hr WOT dynamometer test. Note! The Indian engine still required nursing and also items replacing with further Indian sourced parts to get through the test (though less than
                the previous dynometer test).

        •   Remove engine from dynometer, and produce another strip report, and reassemble and blue print the engine again. Replace any worn or defective components. This time using only
                genuine Lister spare parts as required.

        •   Repeat 200hr WOT dynamometer test. Note! The Indian engine now required only minimal nursing and also some items replacing with further Lister sourced parts to get through the test
                (though now much less  parts replacement than the two previous occasions).

        •   Obtain a Lister CS 8/1 engine from the on-site training school at Dursley, strip, and reassemble(under assembly line conditions and time constraints).
 
        •   Run the Lister 8/1 engine; on a 200hr WOT dynamometer test. Note! The engine required some items replacing to get through the test (attributed to damage to oil pipes inflicted by many      
                strip and rebuilds in the training school, which only became apparent once the engine had been run under load in the test cell).

        •   Remove engine from dynometer, and produce another strip report, reassemble and blue print the engine. Replace any worn or defective components, using only genuine Lister spare parts
                as required.

        •   Run the Lister 8/1engine; on a 200hr WOT dynamometer test. Note! This time the engine required no attention (with the exception of  minor oil leaks), neither did it require any items
                replacing to get through the test.


        During the above tests, the following parameters were constantly logged:  ability of engine governor to maintain set speed, coolant flow and return temperature, exhaust gas temperature,
        exhaust gas emissions, humidity and temperature of inlet air, oil temperature, crankcase vacuum. Throughout the above test regimes regular oil samples were also taken for later analysis and
        comparison.

        The strip reports (for the Indian engine) also details: Oil analysis results, measurement of surface finish roughness on critical bearing surfaces, dimensional and geometric inspection of all critical
        components, and then goes onto compare the recorded dimensions to the respective Lister CS drawings


        The result of the above tests allowed Lister to identify the many deficiencies that existed on the Indian sourced engine that required addressing. Which would be required in order to improve
        the quality and longevity of the engine to an acceptable level, prior to bringing it to market under the Lister name.

4.   A material composition and physical properties report generated from samples cut out of key components of the Indian engine. Tests include:  tensile testing, impact testing, and fatigue testing
        (only on big end bolts and for both Indian and genuine components).

        Report also contains:

        Measurement of Brinell hardness, of all heat treated components, and comparing results to Lister specifications. Preparation of metallographic specimens clearly showing:  contaminants present
        in the metallographic samples at the grain crystal boundaries, slag intrusions on forged components

        Results of mass spectrography, which details the exact material composition by percentage, including contaminants

5.   Rationalisation study of the Lister 8-1 engine, investigating how alternative production techniques / materials could reduce production costs. For example proposals for alternative methods of
        camshaft manufacture.

        Also details of further components that could be eliminated from the engine (i.e. use of a single valve spring from another engine range, in place of the double valve spring arrangement)
        Weight saving measures that could be implemented, such as lighter weight flywheels, and substitution of sheet metal and or Aluminium alloy castings for previously cast iron components.

6.   Build sequence for 8/1 engines.

7.   Minimum list of tooling required for production line assembly of the 8/1 engine.

8.   Results obtained from a WOT 200 hour dynometer test  of ‘export quality’ fast moving  Indian spares (pistons, bearings, valves, fuel injection parts) in a genuine Lister CS 8/1 engine, and
        reporting on the engine performance and wear results obtained, using same methodology as item 3 above.

9.   Drawings of most (though not all) of jigs and fixtures required to manufacture the 8/1 Lister CS engine finished components.

        NOTE! These drawings range from extremely sophisticated multiple operation machining fixtures to very simple sketches of crude pipe bending fixtures. These fixtures date from the pre CNC era,
        when mass produced components were machined on Capstan/Turret Lathes and holes were drilled and tapped using multi-station drill bank type machines.

10.   Option studies of various improvement schemes to the 8/1 engine, such as conversion to direct injection, electric start, internal balance weights, etc.

11.   Calculations for out of balance forces, compression ratio adjustments, calculations to quantify the effects of assembly/production tolerance errors on valve timing events, calculations to quantify
        the effects of more aggressive inlet exhaust cam lobe profiles on valve timing events, and effects upon cam lobe and follower contact area, calculations of moments of inertia for rotating masses
        to derive cyclic irregularities for different weights of flywheels.

12.   A significant quantity of memos and sketches detailing blue sky thinking. Which detail all sorts of ideas for possible implementation to further improve the engine and maintain market share.  
        i.e. production of a VA2 engine, and a natural gas version of the 8/1 engine. Obviously as we now know, none of these schemes were actioned.

Finally I will try and answer any question you may have, as I am sure there will be many
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 10:56:08 AM by listard-jp2 »

dieselgman

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2016, 09:24:21 PM »
Do you know who currently holds the patents and copyrights on this material? Any clear way of obtaining and perfecting the Rights?

We also have a huge trove of similar documentation for many (if not quite all) Lister, Petter, and Witte engine models...

These were duly purchased from the now defunct Western Hemisphere Lister/Petter factory and assembly plant, but issues of ownership of the Rights is of concern if it could become a future issue.

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listard-jp2

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 08:33:52 AM »
/\ Before starting this thread, I had a bet with myself that you would be the first to contribute, and you didn’t disappoint. ;D

You raise some good points, and in response:

Fortunately for me the previous owner of this information also recognised this was something requiring clarification before proceeding any further with this project, and was far sited enough to write a letter to LP posing very similar questions (which were amongst a whole slew of other questions they also posed in the same letter).

The response to this letter [received on official LP letter headed paper] was interesting, and it confirmed that all of the Patents had lapsed on this engine (as you should be aware Patent applications lapse after 20 years see;  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Patent_Convention

Regarding copyright, the letter stated that the majority [at the time of the letter been written] had expired, and LP had no plans to review the extension of the copyright term (see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom )

The letter then went onto to state, for copyrights that were still active LP would expect a reasonable payment, and this would require further discussions based upon: the anticipated annual production levels, the intended items to be produced, and where the anticipated target market for these items was located.  This situation will since have changed further with the passage of time, as more (possibly all) of the copyrights will have now expired.
 
The letter then further explained that LP would look favourably upon any effort to re-commence reproduction of aftermarket parts providing they met or exceeded the quality requirements as set out by LP. Finally the letter also stated that LP would potentially be interested in distributing some of the faster moving spare parts, but again with the caveat, only if the said products met or exceeded the quality requirements as set out by LP.

What came shortly afterwards was somewhat surprising, and was a second letter (in a personal capacity) from the same author as the official LP letter, stating that he would be prepared to render any reasonable help he could to assist in this endeavour. Because as a lifelong and loyal LP employee, he considered that the often dubious quality of the Indian sourced Lister clone CS spares* was damaging to the Lister name, and in his opinion anything that would contribute towards choking off its supply outside of India could only be a good idea.

For any new owner of this information, they will obviously need to subsequently conduct their own due diligence checks, and re-visit the points raised here before proceeding further than I have done so. However the correspondence I have mentioned above establishes precedence, therefore making any subsequent enquiries somewhat easier.
Also bear in mind that as the author of the above letters has since retired from the employment of LP, and may even no longer be with us.
Finally, it goes without saying that I will supply the winning bidder with PDF scans of this correspondence.

* As is more than sufficiently demonstrated by the feasibility studies conducted by LP themselves.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 12:34:39 PM by listard-jp2 »

listard-jp2

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 08:52:08 AM »

We also have a huge trove of similar documentation for many (if not quite all) Lister

These were duly purchased from the now defunct Western Hemisphere Lister/Petter factory and assembly plant, but issues of ownership of the Rights is of concern if it could become a future issue.

Purely out of interest, you yourself as a supplier of parts for much more recent LP products such as the LPW engine range. Do you ever have situations arise which require re-manufacture of obscure parts (when you are unable to source from existing stockholders), and if so how do you contend with the 70 year copyright laws?

I would imagine that Lister ST cylinder heads would be another prime example of this situation, as I know from first hand experience they are now rapidly becoming very difficult to source as a new part, particularly if you have an aversion to using parts originating from India.

dieselgman

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 06:32:01 PM »
I have owned a Lister Distributorship in the US Heartland, but entered the arena well after the real money was made and Lister was already in serious decline. We had to contend with what I considered serious mismanagement on the part of L/P Americas and their apparent neglect of the legacy product that built their company in the first place. In the 1990's L/P had considerable financial troubles and marketplace changes to resolve... including bankruptcy and ownership changes. My real loyalties were with a wonderful product and an old (perhaps outmoded) theory of manufacture that was basically "build it to last a life-time."

That said, we have long since been forced to operate fully independently and sometimes in conflict with the strict controlling edicts from L/P when they did not make sense for the customer base nor the life of their products. Their more recent focus on exempt military and export markets - (mostly EPA meddling), further complicated matters... we slowly watched one after another major client get disgruntled and change brands. The once prolific dealer/distributor base gradually reduced to just a few die-hards. We are one.

Our own foray into aftermarket sourcing was really driven by lack of support. India and China have both stepped into portions of the manufacturing/supply voids. This holds true for Lister OEM as well as what had been aftermarket. Now the Indian parts manufacturers are playing a huge role in the supply chain for Lister/Petter. Their roles in the past are less clear as much of the detail was considered and held as trade secrets. The majority of the Alpha series castings and forgings (military engines) have all originated from China and India. I have seen a lot of the aftermarket stuff erroneously and falsely identified as having British manufacturing origin.

After about 10 years of trial and error, the ST head castings are once again available in OEM quality. Whether one is averse to third-world manufacturing or not... has become irrelevant. This is the new standard.

I have no clear answers on the issues raised regarding copyrights and patents... practical common-sense should prevail, but sometimes not so obvious. Your inputs are appreciated and obviously thoughtful and fairly comprehensive. My perspective is simply that the old Lister/Petter operation is completely dead and gone... their customers and products live on, and all of the new production as well as company policy and operation as it exists now is a brand new and unknown quantity.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 09:34:24 PM by dieselgman »
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38ac

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 02:40:31 PM »
I admire your work in this but at my age I don't (or should not :() have interest personally in taking this on. I do hope somebody does run with it  as the rebuilding of the various slow speed types by Lister and Bamfords is the mainstay of my shop.  Id rather not deal with India  personally even if the quality is there (which in some cases it is).
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listard-jp2

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2016, 07:46:20 AM »
Since starting this thread I have had significant interest in these drawings via the PM function from several forum members, because I believe that for the benefit of all interested forum members its of more value if these questions are asked on the open forum area (it also benefits me in that I am not having to answering very similar framed questions several times over). From now on I will only continue to answer as many questions as you would like to pose to me on this subject in the open forum area.

Incidentally the first bidder has now come out of the woodwork, and has submitted a bid to the email address provided.

The rebuilding of the various slow speed types by Lister and Bamfords is the mainstay of my shop.  Id rather not deal with India  personally even if the quality is there (which in some cases it is).

What model of Bamford engine do you predominantly work on: Z2, Z3, or Z4. As I may have located a source of Piston and Liner kits (but I am waiting to hear back from the source, exactly which engine model they are suitable for).
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 09:52:50 AM by listard-jp2 »

dieselgman

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2016, 11:21:05 AM »
Quote
Purely out of interest, you yourself as a supplier of parts for much more recent LP products such as the LPW engine range. Do you ever have situations arise which require re-manufacture of obscure parts (when you are unable to source from existing stockholders), and if so how do you contend with the 70 year copyright laws?

To more clearly answer this question... Regarding specifically the Alpha series (LPW) engines we have never needed to delve into alternative suppliers because almost everything has remained available via original sources - mostly from India of course (and some from China). If that is good enough for Cummins/Onan, New Holland, the US Military, then who are we to complain? Of course even disclosing such information was at one time a major breach of L/P internal policy and probably contravened their supply contracts as well. At least some of those same manufacturers and suppliers remain in operation. In addition, the available parts stocks in the Americas has remained massive due to several substantial remanufacturing operations. We purchased full inventories from several of them. As far as the Rights to the designs on current production product goes, it would seem that those went along with the bankruptcy sale of L/P. I suspect some careful research is called for regarding long out of production models and most of the copyright laws appear to apply more directly to the intellectual rights related to publishing and works of art.

dieselgman
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38ac

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2016, 01:15:07 PM »
The Bamford work is primarily on models Z2 and Z2M. There are a few Z4s around but they are much less common.  Never seen a Z3 here. 
Currently have 2 Z2M  for overhaul but waiting for me to get my shop up and going which has been a much slower process than I anticipated.
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listard-jp2

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2016, 03:22:11 PM »
/\ /\ I have not extensively worked on the LPW and LPA engine range. As I was getting out of this line of work just as this engine range was becoming prevalent.  I specifically remember at the time not being overly impressed with the fuel injection pump design, as the element is part of the pump body. Therefore any wear and you throw the whole pump assembly away.

Judging from this: https://www.zauba.com/export-lister+lpw/fp-united+kingdom-hs-code.html

These engines still seem quite popular in the UK, possibly due to there use on marine applications, where they are still widely used.


Butch

From the list below, it sounds like the Z2 and Z2m share the same piston and liner assembly. Once I know what is available I will send you a PM to discuss this in more detail.

Model      Cylinders    Bore & Stroke   HP @ RPM (max)          Cooling     Weight        Fuel   
   
Z1                   1           4.1/2 X 5           3.5 @ 600                   Water     0.34     Diesel      
Z2                   1           4.1/2 X 5           4.5 @ 600                  Water      0.36     Diesel      
Z2M                1           4.1/2 X 5           5.5 @ 700                   Water     0.36     Diesel      
Z3                   1           5 X 6                7 @ 600                      Water     0.41      Diesel      
Z4                   1           5 X 6                8 @ 700                      Water     0.41      Diesel      

dieselgman

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2016, 08:54:17 PM »
Lister used all Stanadyne and now Delphi f.i. parts for the Alpha series. Those have been fairly dependable and consistent in performance - manufactured in Turkey and Mexico as well as India and maybe even China now days. I have no doubt there are other manufacturing sites as well. The New L/P group continues to build the Alpha water-cooled models, but the reports on current quality have been less than inspiring. The L/P Americas operation had many of the same parts sources but they also adhered to a strict qc regimen that rejected a large amount of the marginal stuff coming out of India. I also saw a few Chinese rejects, (mostly due to incomplete machining operations) but much lesser in quantity and no particular negative references have been heard on those. I only got a look at 2015 operations right before their closure and have not had a look at a longer history regarding the parts operations. If I ever have the time, I will review further. I do have loads of their QC records that might also shed some light.

In addition to substantial US Military sales, the Alphas were also manufactured and supplied (rebranded) to Cummins/Onan and New Holland under very strict controls.

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2016, 08:47:35 AM »
After looking through the hard drive that I have this information stored on, I have now come across a list of British Standards I had also acquired which are mentioned on numerous drawings (but I  had forgotten all about). Copies of these standards will also now be included in the winning bid price, in the form of PDF scans.


If you were to have to buy these standards, as you can see by clicking on the link, they would represent a significant investment, in their own right: http://shop.bsigroup.com/



This will consist of the following standards:

BS 970 Specification for wrought steels for mechanical and allied engineering purposes. Bright bars for general engineering purposes


BS 1452:1990 Specification for flake graphite cast iron


BS 84:2007 Parallel screw threads of Whitworth form. Requirements

This British Standard specifies limits of sizes, and tolerances, for single start parallel screw threads of Whitworth form, for general engineering use.


BS 1726-1:2002 Cylindrical helical springs made from round wire and bar. Guide to methods of specifying, tolerances and testing. Compression springs


BS 310 :1972 Specification for blackheart malleable iron castings


BS 32:1935 Steel bars for the production of machined parts (suitable for automatic, semi automatic and turret lathes)


BS 1387:1985 Specification for screwed and socketed steel tubes and tubulars and for plain end steel tubes suitable for welding or for screwing to BS 21 pipe threads


BS 4935:1989 Method of specifying acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene (ABS) moulding and extrusion materials


BS 249:1953 Free machining brass rods and sections


BS 4060:2006 Pressed wool felts. Specification




« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 11:11:54 AM by listard-jp2 »

listard-jp2

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Re: LISTER CS 8/1 GENUINE SET OF DRAWINGS AVAILABLE FOR SALE
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2016, 08:22:11 AM »
Well June has come and gone, and so have these drawings. As they are now heading for a new home.

Bids were received as a result of this this forum thread, however these bids fell well short of an existing firm offer I already had in place.

The winning bidder is a company that is located in South East Asia, and is presently manufacturing single cylinder copies of the Lister 8/1 engine for a domestic market (where there is a healthy demand for these engines), using locally sourced castings (cast from their own patterns), and production of other components that can be machined from bar stock. When I last visited them, they were just starting on the production of small hot stamped components (governor linkage, rocker arms, oil pump body and fuel pipe brass banjo's)

The engines they produce still have a significant Indian content (typically the more complex components requiring heat treatment, and forging operations, together with the fuel injector and fuel pump assemblies).

They intend to use this information to:

1),  Increase the locally made content of their finished product.

2),  Improve the quality of the items they already produce.

3),  Using the jigs and fixture drawings reduce production costs, increase dimensional accuracy, and increase production volumes.

4),  Use the Indian engine strip report information to be able to quantify the deficiencies in the Indian products they will still continue to buy in from Rajkot.







Finally thanks for the interest that you have shown in this, and its unfortunate that no one was able to beat the offer I already had on the table.

I had a few suggestions that I should be making this information available to forum members free of charge. I would have liked to have done so, but I had a lot of my time and money tied up in this venture, and which I needed to see a return on.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 10:31:45 AM by listard-jp2 »