Author Topic: Blasphemy..... Solar power.  (Read 64870 times)

Nonni

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #375 on: December 06, 2017, 08:29:49 PM »
solar power is now a day a best option and also in trend…it is quiet costly but one time investment…i live in hostel..and they plant solar plates..n we are happy with that…

BruceM

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #376 on: December 06, 2017, 09:32:19 PM »
Adev-  The old thermal model of radiation being safe unless it literally cooks you (the insane "microwaved hot dog theory") has been widely disproven.  That is NOT the mechanism by which cell function in living organisms is affected.  Industry promotes this myth since it allows very high peak levels which are handy for digital communications. 

Plenty of researchers and doctors around the world are concerned.

www.bioinitiative.org

As for human robustness to microwaves...if you check with a fair group of friends of all ages you'll find few that don't have a collection of chronic, typically autoimmune related health issues.  Commonly, your doctor might tell you it's "stress".  I agree, but the stressor may likely be environmental and perhaps EMF. How would you know without checking? But obviously, I'm biased.  I think that EMFs that can be simply and readily avoided should be. 






oldgoat

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #377 on: December 07, 2017, 03:48:34 PM »
They were much lower requency than a mobile but the Radiated power was high much more than the 4 watts from a mobile towerb (50 Kw) for the local stations and (12Kw) for the 2 short wave aerials In those days they ran for 19 hrs a day. The favourite trick to impress the young trainees was to give them a fluorescent tube and watch their faces as it lit up from the radiation we would also earth the guy wires on the tower and draw an arc and they were most impressed to hear the programme playing over the arc

Nonni

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #378 on: December 12, 2017, 11:09:24 AM »
This is all certainly interesting, but it's hard for me to understand. I heard the opinion from my friends and read many articles about the advantages of water heaters (if you would be interested one of them https://www.newtanklesswaterheaters.com/7-myths-tankless-water-heaters-need-stop-believing/). I'm interested in how much battery power and what do I need to connect tankless water heater, and not worry about the electricity bill....

AdeV

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #379 on: December 12, 2017, 05:02:53 PM »
They're talking about gas-fired combi boilers. Solar panels might run the igniter and the pump, but it won't replace the gas....

To run an "instant" electric shower you need between 7.5 and 10.5 kW at around 230V~; that's a 40-45amp breaker, if your PV battery setup is at 48 volts, you're looking at supplying a constant 200amps to run your shower. That's pretty meaty, and I'm not entirely sure there's an inverter built to cope with that, and you'll need a beast of a battery bank to power it...

Nah - if you're going off-grid with solar, you're FAR better off heating a big tank of hot water using direct solar energy, rather than making electricity then using that to heat the water. Then simply mix with hot & cold under gravity (or pump) for your actual shower. Or use the "bush shower" idea that Mike showed in another thread.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

BruceM

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #380 on: December 12, 2017, 05:53:25 PM »
Try builditsolar.com to get better educated on solar hot water. 

On demand gas h/w for a backup to solar is reasonable, if your water mineral content is suitable. On demand uses lots of surface area of fine tubing to quickly transfer a LOT of BTUs to the water.  This small tubing is vulnerable to scale and mineral build up so it's a bad choice for some water sources.  The flow sensing to turn on the gas and flow/temp gas regulation has also been failure prone on some models for some water sources.

So depending on the unit and water mineral situation, on-demand can be a far cry from the reliability of the old electronics-free tank with pilot and burner, with it's inherent low efficiency (about 60%) due to stack heat loss. (Vent stack inside tank creates thermosiphon of air to cool tank 24/7.)


basewindow

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #381 on: December 12, 2017, 09:04:56 PM »
I've had an 'Off Grid' place for a good few years now,  being there 3 days a week, four back at home (still have to work unfortunately). Its only a small place with one bathroom with shower and bath and sink, small kitchen, small laundry. So a total of 4 hot taps. I had the same dilemma when installing hot water. After much consideration i ended up going with an propane (LPG) on demand unit. I used a Bosch Hydro Power 16 for several reasons.

Pros: Reasonably cheap to purchase(compared to other models/brands), easy to install and maintain, quite efficient on gas(over tank and pilot based system), requires no extrnal elecricity to run. Instant* hot water (after about 20 seconds of cold)
Cons: Takes some getting used to in operation, one part is prone to failure and expensive to replace, as the units are not manufactured and used to the same degree as the normal grid connected units, parts are harder to come by.

Efficiency wise its one of the things that uses the least gas, probably becase it only gets used 2 to 3 times a day for short showers, washing dishes etc. The gas fridge uses more.

I dont have to heat a tank full time when im not there or wait for it to heat up once I get there if I turn it off.

The part that fails quite often  is the is the small water turbine that creates a spark to ignite it once water starts flowing. It is well documented. I purchased mine 2nd hand and it failed after 2 years. The parts are available but hard to find and from memory cost around $250 au. But there is a work around, that although not perfect worked for me. Simply replaced the power source with a couple of D cell batteries with a switch to inside. Switch on hot water. Batteries last about six months.

Requires a certain flow rate to ignite, so hot water has to be turned on first and cold added to reach the required temperature. A bit fiddly sometimes when you want a shower.

Im sure there are better more reliable units available but I was doing this on the cheap.

Its all pressurized to 30psi and uses a small on demand 12v pump, Flojet or similar.

I thought of solar hot water in its various forms, hot water solar panels and tank on roof, gas assited solar, the old layers of black tubing on the roof. It either got needlessly complex or too expensive.

There are many other options off gridders use as well that aren't solar related.

Just my experience for my circumstances.

1953 CS Lister 3.5hp, 1938? Bamford SD1 3.5hp, 1962 Fordson Super Dexta, 1969 International 434.

starfire

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #382 on: December 12, 2017, 09:36:06 PM »
We call these things a caliphont here in NZ, and can highly recommend them. Mine is a "Rinnai" brand, it uses 2 D cells to run the igniter, these last around 5 years.. Despite its cheap appearance, it has served me with no issues at all for 17 years. It has many  safety features,  a 20 minute timer that limits the time it can run.... in case a pipe bursts etc. It will shut down if water pressure drops, and requires a minimum flow rate of 2 liters a minute. This runs my shower, and kitchen tap.. I use around 9 kilos of LPG in a 6 week period, showers every night. One nice feature is the instant hot water when the tap is turned on.... no waiting cause they can be mounted close to the tap.  Also saves money on not needing a shower mixer, the water temperature is adjusted  on the caliphont instead, and will hold its setting very accurately over time. The flow rate can also be adjusted with a second knob.
Rain water is fine for these, after all, rain is distilled water and has no added "goodness" unless you live in a some polluted place.

buickanddeere

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #383 on: December 14, 2017, 08:19:53 PM »
Due to to high retail rates in Ontario that support the subsidized whole rates to solar, wind and natural gas generators . A do it yourselfer with some solar panels and a grid tie inverter can break even during the air conditioning and pool pump season.

glort

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #384 on: December 15, 2017, 03:10:27 AM »

I put 5,5 Kw of panels on the shed roof But Due to a problem with the wiring I think I have now found, I couldn't pump it all back down the line. I put on another inverter and split the arrays which was OK because I am feeding the 2 metered phases.

Friend suggested I move the panels back onto the ample house roof but being west i'd loose a LOT of generation.
The side of the house which is the correct orientation will allow me to put up at least 18 x 250W panels  Nd I can get another 4 facing west so I will probably get more panels and throw up another 5.5 Kw on there.

It went 44oC yesterday  so the Mrs came home and put the air on to cool the house while she went shopping. Came home and said it was perfect.  Next week is due to be 35-40+ so I will be burning some Kw on the AC. Least when its hot the sun is shining I'm making power.  I'm with my father whom hasn't been well atm but it will be interesting to see how much power I have made in the last week when I get home.  The new (to me, used) inverter has a lot of data logging which is interesting to read.

I think 10-11 Kw all up for us should be good.   With not a lot of air use so far I have been making more power than what I have been using.  The AC will put the biggest dent in that.
I was worried about the summer use and power consumption with the AC but I'm thinking my concerns may have been misplaced. As we are going to be using the AC for heating as well in the winter and the solar radiation is so much lower, I think that's the time I'll really want the extra generation capability.

starfire

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #385 on: December 15, 2017, 09:22:16 AM »
My Lister has not run for months, the solar panels daily are giving 30 amps for around 5 hours, obviously tapering off morning and evening as the sun moves around. Given the capacity of my battery bank, thats as much as I can store, in fact most is now being wasted. I may change to a 48 volt system next year if this global warming thing takes off, its improved our weather enormously, thanks to all the high emission Lister owners. There is something hugely satisfying making and consuming ones own power.

Tom

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #386 on: December 15, 2017, 05:35:55 PM »
A 40 gal electric is a good place to dump a lot of extra power when the batteries are full. We use one to preheat the water before it goes into the gas heater.
Tom
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LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #387 on: December 15, 2017, 05:44:18 PM »
I think Tom's excess storage method is why PV is often recommended over direct hot water generation.  Once everything is warmed up then the water collector is through for the day.  PV continues to provide storage or grid credits.  Of course it's tough to beat the ROI of a coil of HDPE on the roof.
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mikenash

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #388 on: December 15, 2017, 07:51:42 PM »
I think Tom's excess storage method is why PV is often recommended over direct hot water generation.  Once everything is warmed up then the water collector is through for the day.  PV continues to provide storage or grid credits.  Of course it's tough to beat the ROI of a coil of HDPE on the roof.

Casey, when I built the shed/house/workshop outside which the coil of HDPE lurks I put in a lot of time in the planning stages - going out  to the site in winter and driving pegs into the ground to see what the sunshine did in relation to trees and hills etc, and I looked up the govt stats on sun elevation at the lowest midwinter point and the highest midsummer point and drew up some side elevations, then when building I put a big overhang porch on the building, but set up about four metres high - so the low summer sun come in underneath it and shines all the way in through all of the glass in the front and the high summer sun is shaded by the overhang etc etc

I reckon commonsense stuff like that gives you a big head-start on low energy requirements

Just my $0.02  Cheers

mikenash

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #389 on: December 15, 2017, 08:02:27 PM »
Actually, Casey, I got sidetracked during the typing of that reply by a call from a client who had torn off a hydrant riser from his irrigation system.  The sun is shining, the irrigator has stopped and his sense of urgency translates into an early-hours Saturday call to me . . .

What I was going to say is you can't beat the ROI on good planning . . .

Especially when, like me, you don't have any investment funds and your labour is your investment and your future leisure is your return

Cheers