Author Topic: Blasphemy..... Solar power.  (Read 148475 times)

Hugh Conway

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2016, 12:51:38 AM »
re batteries:
I'm off-grid with a 24V system. Using 2V cells like these http://www.davidsonbattery.com/product_p/85t17.htm That works out to about 20 KWH, of which I use about 10% daily. They do require distilled water, but not very often, maybe once every 3 months.
A nearby friend just had to replace his battery bank. Also 2V cells, but 85T15 that gave him something like 17.8KWH. His battery bank lasted 21 years, charged by solar panels and micro hydro.
The storage is really the sticking point, it is costly (and heavy when using lead acids)
IMHO, going with a grid-tie system to eliminate batteries is a non starter though. Many Electricity providers are cancelling their power buy-back agreements, or drastically reducing their buy-back rates. Those roof-top home grid tie systems are not popular with the utility companies, and when the power goes out, you are without just like everyone else. Apparently most grid-tie inverters cannot be used with a battery system.

Using solar panels as a roof.....+1. We did not seal between panels, but do use them as a roof to store hay.

Cheers,
Hugh
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mike90045

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2016, 09:51:44 PM »
If you do cover the bottom side of the PV array for heat harvesting, be warned, that in summer, you need to be sure they will never overheat. If they overheat, the glues delaminate and it all comes apart. 
And the warmer a panel is, the less power it produces.

EdDee

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2016, 11:17:02 AM »
Hey Glort,

On the subject of back-feeding an old mechanical meter - Have you tried it?

I was fortunate a while back to get a few meters of various ages and vintage - all scrapped, with a bit of cosmetic/closure/lense damage mostly ... They were all working reasonably well, but needed calibration of course... While I was playing with them, I noticed an interesting little mechanism on the worm wheel that drove the counter/display digits. It was an anti-runback ratchet and pawl - when backfeeding these meters, they would spin a few revs in reverse and then hit the stop... All but one out of about 20 or so had this mechanism in place, deep in the innards of the meter, not easy to get at without removing covers and fascia... The one that didnt have the ratchet, had been tampered with, by the looks of it, so I reckon the ratchet mech must probably be pretty standard... And judging by the ages of these things, been around for quite a while too...

Just saying....

Cheers
Ed
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 11:22:28 AM by EdDee »
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EdDee

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2016, 04:35:43 PM »
Glort!

You are a man of wisdom and absolute integrity!! (Along with an unmatched sense of humour!)

Lemme guess.... All this.....and good looks too?

I love it!!

Cheers
E
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
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Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2016, 07:11:18 PM »
Hi glort,

I'm sorry but I have to ask.  How fast do you type - keyboard?  

Now that I'm here.  Does anyone have practical experience with these http://aquionenergy.com/?

Casey
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 07:14:02 PM by LowGear »
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BruceM

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2016, 08:27:52 PM »
Casey-  look closely at the peak power output of the Aquion systems.  It is very low. 

Tom

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2016, 08:49:39 PM »
Pretty inefficient on the recharge cycle too.
Tom
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BruceM

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2016, 07:08:08 AM »
It seems like a big breakthrough in batteries is right around the corner, but then that's been the case for the last 100 years.  I bought 10 more cheap wet lead marine batteries 6 months ago; they give me 4.5 years of service for $1000.   

I'll be happy to switch to something better in 4 years, but I'm not holding my breath.

Wet Lead Acid batteries are still the best bang for the $ for off grid batteries.  Pity Moore's law doesn't apply to batteries!



LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2016, 06:57:30 PM »
BruceM:  What a great point.  So what is the formula for converting the crank hours or ? into simple KW information?  I use the large ones in a farm-golf cart and my ATV project is based on the smaller deep cycle cheapski batteries. 

glort:  I think one of selling points is the lack of contamination crap on your property and the rest of the environment.  You know some people are not concerned with heavy metals or the lead contamination of drinking waters - you get the idea. The drinking water here in Hawaii is only 25 years old.  That means we are just starting to drink the stuff poured or spilled onto the ground more serious than lava ash.  Some of us are even willing to pay a premium for that margin.

I'll go back to the site and even read some of the information.  It's a nice video.

Thanks to you all for your thoughts.

Casey
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BruceM

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2016, 10:03:03 PM »
Casey, it's getting harder to find good figures for Marine batteries.  My old Group 27 sized ones were rated 110 AH at 20 hour discharge rate (5a draw).  My new group 29 batteries aren't rated in AH.  The reserve minutes at 25amp draw could be used to compute capacity, but it will be quite low due to the high discharge rate.

Marine batteries work very well for me because I have a 120V series string, and my maxium current draw is 10a, and my typical is 1-3 amps.  My current 10 marine group 29 batteries would be roughly 125AH x 120 Volts= 15 KWH 

For a typical 48v inverter system, your currents will likely be much (10x?) higher and you will need a battery with more capacity. Nothing smaller than an L16 type will hold up well.  You really need to  take some daily meter readings and figure out what you usage must be.   Then after you price the batteries you'll want to find a way to reduce your consumption!


Tom

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2016, 05:35:43 PM »
This conversation reminds me how happy I am to be off-grid. My thought to rid my self from as much of the grid as possible, in a suburban environment, is to build a battery bank just big enough to get through the night. On cloudy days just use the grid to recharge. I'd imagine that could cut about 90% of usage.
Tom
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LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2016, 07:01:03 PM »
Tom: 
Quote
On cloudy days just use the grid to recharge. I'd imagine that could cut about 90% of usage.
How do you stop your battery power from going down the grid tie?

Casey
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Tom

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2016, 08:15:02 PM »
Off-grid inverters will allow you to sell or not and recharge from the grid or not. In our system "extra" energy goes to an electric hot water heater when the batteries are full. That heater feeds a LP heater pre-heated water or not depending on the time of the year.
Tom
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buickanddeere

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2016, 02:27:19 PM »
How many of these "off grid" all green homes have municipal water a gas fridge, gas stove, gas water heater , gas clothes dryer and gas furnace ? 

LowGear

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Re: Blasphemy..... Solar power.
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2016, 05:57:51 PM »
Aloha buickanddeere,

As I coast towards Off-Gridness part of that delusion is moving my heating needs as much as possible off electricity and towards gas.  That isn't easy but it's part of pulling the plug.  Just so many of you lucky bums know, we're paying well over $3 a gallon for propane.  I like the hot water tank storage of electricity.  That seems to be the new strategy here in Hawaii now that grid tie has been converted into a 36,500 % annualized money maker for the power company.  Rather than hook up a hot water collector on the roof just install a stand alone PV solar dedicated hot water system.  Once you look at the butt kicking prices that are charged for hot water collection systems here PV looks kind of "Priced right."

And I've wondered the same thing how independent "Off-Grid" people are from their gas supply line.  Is anyone working with compressed natural gas for home use yet?

Casey
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