Spares from India

[dieselspanner]

Hi Guys

Over the past year or so I've been restoring / rebuilding a 6/1 Lister 'bitza' - with a whole lot of help from the site. After boasting of my success at buying Listeroid spares from the 'States at a reasonable rate' it was pointed out to me that I'd be better off going to direct to an Indiansupplier - Dieselgman. I think.

I've since ordered 3 lots, at around $250 a piece, from Dev Precision Engineering, in Rajkot and was more than satisfied with the service, delivery time and quality, until the last batch.

The oil feed pick up filter was a fuel filter 'wick' and the bearing carriers and bearings were for a 'Listeroid' with a 55mm crank shaft and not an original Lister's 2" shaft - I was at great pains to specify I wanted 2" bearings and we even exchanged emails on the subject. The English used ( I presume by Devang) is pretty good, so I'd call it a 50 / 50 mistake based on the way I read his reply, however the crankshaft oil seals delivered were 2", and there were 4, not 2 of them!

I emailed the problems and at the same time complained that the injection pump from the first order was leaking from the rack after just a few minuets running and was a seal kit available?, I was asked what seals I needed, I said I'd pull the pump apart and check. That afternoon I pulled the pump and using information from the web discovered there are no seals, it all relies on the plunger being correctly lapped in, it wasn't. There are a couple of tight spots and one very loose one, in exactly the wrong position, and a lot of dust and debris in the lower half of the pump body.

 I'd followed 38ac's instructions carefully (thanks once more) and had not let the pump 'bind' at maximum cam lift when setting up and am more than certain it's a manufacturing issue rather than my ham fisted approach to engineering.

Having repeatedly emailed Devprecision (some emails may have not got through, we've had no fixed line internet up here in the Pyrenees since Christmas, but I can't believe they've all got lost in cyberspace)  I have had no further reply in the last couple of weeks.

Rant over, I've got it off my chest, so a couple of questions.


Am I likely to hear from Devprecision?

Are there other suppliers on the sub continent, and are they any more dependable?

Is the pump I have salvageable?, it appears the plunger housing should easily remove from the body.

Where should I buy the next pump from, and should I try and get an original Bosch rather than an Indian copy?

As always, help and comments welcome.

Stef

[dieselgman]

Consistently inconsistent... you are lucky enough to find one who will actually send the parts out after taking your money. There are hundreds of suppliers but many fewer who have an export license to do business with the rest of the world. Never mind the quality issues... even the folks I have dealt with for decades still slip in some crap from time to time and make all the excuses in the book for their failures to provide the QC that we are paying them for. As far as fuel injection parts go... Bosch and Lucas and Lister have all been sourcing OEM from India for a long time. I always got a good chuckle when we would get shipments in from India with engravings saying "Made in England". We have seen quite good quality alongside crappy non-working stuff with no explanation of why there is such a discrepancy allowed. You would be surprised at the volume of non-standard failure parts that actually made their way into the L/P plant in Olathe (USA) and were subsequently sidelined. Lister has always been known for keeping the lid on such things and maintaining the integrity of their product line and good name.

Just toss what does not work, and in the case of your pump, just replace the non-working portions and you should be fine. Any of the vendors can provide good service if they like, very few can actually provide any kind of meaningful performance regarding a warranty though. We build that reality into our pricing structures with a failure expectation rate that is quite high compared with Western standards and expectations. Pay the price here or take your chances. 

dieselgman

[listard-jp2]

Where should I buy the next pump from, and should I try and get an original Bosch rather than an Indian copy?

If this experience has not completely put you off sourcing parts from India, then I suggest that you might like to try this company:

http://www.ksdiesels.com/pro_pumps.htm

Unless originality is an important consideration (and you have a really early engine with BOSCH fuel injection equipment) then a Bosch pump will be an unnecessary expenditure. A CAV or Bryce pump will be just as good.

Here is just such an example listing on ebay UK at present: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Bryce-Pump-FBOABO7OC6655-Lister-engines-6-1-8-1-12-2-16-2-VA-/181298406415

[38ac]

Out of curiosity is your replacement pump a MICO or one of the genaric pumps?   MICO is Bosch India and parts and complete units have been very consistent and high quality in my experience while the other non-MICO stuff is garbage. Actually looks to be assembled from off-spec pieces found in reject dumpsters. 

55MM crankshaft? That's anew one on me.  We have been using India sourced main bushings for quite sometime and never had a bad one, meaning out of spec for size.  We are currently out of stock on bushings though and will need to source a few sets.

[dieselspanner]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the feedback, I woke up at 2am French time, hungry, with a stinking cold, couldn't drop off again so came downstairs and due to a lack of posting from Ed Dee to keep me occupied I thought I'd do something off my own bat!

Dieselgman,

Having reread my posting I realise it may have sounded as if I was trying to shift the blame towards you, nothing could be further than the truth, I'm a big boy and am as worldly wise as 14 years in the Royal Marines, followed by the thick edge of 30 as an ex pat is going to get any one, sorry if I caused any ill feeling.

Mostly I was starry eyed by the first 2 orders, they were dispatched within hours of a Paypal payment and got here on the Friday after the order was placed the Sunday before, the third had a packig date only 3 days before it arrived, can't fault it, as the Welsh say!

If you have on the shelf a suitable plunger, guide and control rack on the shelf please let me know and I'll do as you suggest and change out the dodgy bits, as 38ac said there's no markings on the pump body so I probably have one assembled from the pick of the dumpster - obviously I expect to pay for the parts and shipping!

Listard-jp2

Thanks for that, I'll check it out, as they too are in Rajkot my pump may well have had it's internals smuggled out inside someone's dhoti after they had a scrounge through the said dumpster!

Originality has never been my thing, I have a couple of old BSA's, they look nice, run great but won't ever win the Concours d' Elegance!

If it works as it should, or better still, better, that's fine by me.


38ac

It's a generic pump, I guess, no plate or makers name, do you know the name of the company that makes the Bosch gear under license?

55mm crankshaft was quoted to me as the metric option on a Listeroid. The bearing carriers are are a bit rough and don't fit the registers as well as the originals, they are machined to take a 55 x 100 x 26.75 taper roller bearing, made by 'Zexx' bearing no 32211.

26.75mm is almost exactly 1 17/32", so is this some sort of bastard size anyway?

Strangely enough they're in Rajkot as well - there's a common theme developing here............

Please could you let me know what size the 'standard' imperial bearings are, maybe I can get myself out of this with a bit of machining.




One final question, is it considered impolite to use members given names if they post them? I don't want to seem pushy. what with being a newbie and all!


Cheers Stef

P.S. Anyone can call me anything!

[dieselspanner]

Oops!

26.75 mm = 1 1/16"

Bit of a problem going back to Imperial

Cheers

 Stef

[EdDee]

Hey Stef...

This is a definite first for me.... usually I land int the sh!t for something I have said.... not for keeping quiet! Don't worry, I am still around, haven't blown anything up lately.... or did I....? Well there was this old shotgun, last week.... but that's another story... and it will remain just that becoz I didn't take pictures... no proof, didnt happen... but Damascus with 1.5 load plus double slug is fun! Just don't try it without sandbags...

But seriously though, I been kinda busy doing just about every concievable thing except lister stuff.... about the most spectacular was jumping on my old 35 Ferguson Gold Belly, and winding it over thinking to myself 'start dammit' I am in a hurry! On finishing the job I had lined up, I sat back with a cuppa Joe and I suddenly realised why it took about 15secs of winding over to start... I haven't used it for almost 3yrs.... Damn I love this diesel stuff....

Cheers...
Ed

PS... I am gonna be scarce for the next little while still.... 1x2000 kg roof gantry to be designed, fabricated and installed at about 3m height, 9m long by 6m wide in the next few days... pretty much man alone... just me and old Archimedes.... second to diesel, levers are great!

[38ac]

Hi Guys


38ac

It's a generic pump, I guess, no plate or makers name, do you know the name of the company that makes the Bosch gear under license? You can also try Peter Slater Injection Engineering in GB. I have used them in the past but due to exchange rates and shipping I do not use them for common MICO brand parts I can obtain here in the states.

55mm crankshaft was quoted to me as the metric option on a Listeroid. The bearing carriers are are a bit rough and don't fit the registers as well as the originals, they are machined to take a 55 x 100 x 26.75 taper roller bearing, made by 'Zexx' bearing no 32211.

26.75mm is almost exactly 1 17/32", so is this some sort of bastard size anyway?

Strangely enough they're in Rajkot as well - there's a common theme developing here............

Please could you let me know what size the 'standard' imperial bearings are, maybe I can get myself out of this with a bit of machining.




One final question, is it considered impolite to use members given names if they post them? I don't want to seem pushy. what with being a newbie and all!


Cheers Stef

P.S. Anyone can call me anything!

 Dont worry about the name thing, its no biggie stateside however I know where you are coming from with that.  I post on a couple  of GB based forums and found out the hard way that it is considered very rude to not start each post with an introduction and end with  proper name just like writing a letter,  just cultural things.  

The injection parts company is MICO which is ( or was?) owed by Bosch and is top notch equipment. You can also try Peter Slater Injection Engineering in GB. I use them for non Lister CS parts that cannot be easily sources from MICO. I am sure they will have your Lister CS needs in stock.

I am thoroughly confused by your crankshaft bearing question. The carriers for tapered roller bearings are different castings than the ones for OEM type bushings. Are you converting your engine to roller bearings or trying to convert TRB carriers to OEM type bushings?

Butch

[dieselspanner]

Dear Butch

Thanks for that, I learned the hard way too, back in the 70's as a young Bootneck I joined HMS Fearless, long since gone for scrap, and was amazed that all rough arsed matlots and bootnecks would as politely if they might join a table, at mealtimes, and more stunned by the comments directed to those that didn't!

Anyway thanks for the injector hints, as for the bearings.....

The 3/1 - hopper cooled bitza I've turned into a 6/1 had been run to death with sand in the sump and one side of the crank is badly worn, I've had it running on plain bushes but there's a distinct knock so before I went down the new crankshaft route I thought I'd try TRBs and Loctite 620 (It's worked well for me before)

The bearing carriers I ordered fit the Lister, but are machined for a metric TRB with a bore of 55mm. Strangely the oilseals were for a 2" shaft.

I have a cunning plan based on more machining and a pair of SKF imperial bearings.

Yours Faithfully

Stef

(Sorry, couldn't resist it!!)

[dieselspanner]

Hi All

A parcel arrived from Rajkot, India today, a replacement pump, two new bearings and an oil feed pick up filter.

The bearings appear to be the right size, for both the shaft and the bearing carriers.

The pick up filter is ok

The injection pump was seized solid.

I stripped it down and it appeared to have been assembled with glue, I can only assume that it was built with a vegetable based oil that had dried out in a hot store room.
After I got it to bits, cleaned out the gunk and re lubed it, it was fine, feels much better than the earlier one.

Once Devprecision contacted me and said they would have special bearings made, it took about 3 weeks to sort out. I guess if you're just down the road from the manufacturers anything is possible.

Well done Devprecision, I should have more faith.

All I did was send them a link to the site and the comments above, surely some coincidence?

Cheers Stef