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Author Topic: Introduction/ New project/ Questions  (Read 20880 times)

broncodriver99

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Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« on: February 10, 2016, 12:47:49 AM »
Hello everyone,

I have been lurking here for a few years and wanted to finally introduce myself and say hello. This place is great and a wealth of information. You guys definitely know your Listers.

I live in the US and one day while surfing youtube came across a video of a Lister CS. I was mesmerized, most everything here is a 3600 rpm screamer, and most all of it is gasoline. I must have watched a hundred lister videos after that and my mind was pretty much set that I wanted one. At the time I didn't have the time to take on another project but the thought stayed in the back of my mind. I succumbed to temptation after a couple of years lusting over these big flywheeled beauties and started gathering bits and pieces in the fall of 2014. I had looked into the clones here in North America but the EPA was well on it's way to eliminating their import. Pricing and quality was all over the place and longevity was an unknown factor, so I decided to start looking for an original English made example. I came across a Dursley made 5/1 from an SOM set on Ebay UK and placed a couple of bids on it. I figured there was no way I would end up with it considering what originals were going for, but in the last few minutes of the auction I realized the possibility of victory and mounted my battle plan. I won the auction in the last seconds with one last desperate 10 Pound bid. The seller was none other than the admin, the man behind the curtain, AdeV. I quickly sent him a message here to let him know I had won his auction, was in the US, and was making arrangements for payment and for the lister to be picked up. He was very gracious and happy to help in any way he could.

I had been in contact with millman56 for a week or so before I came across Ade's auction. We were discussing putting together a shipment if I found a lister. He had a couple of CS engines that we were talking about and the possibility of him selling one of them. I can't thank Mark enough for his help and knowledge in navigating a transcontinental shipment which I had no experience with outside of a FedEx package. He did the heavy lifting as far as getting everything mounted to a stillage, helping coordinate shipping, and getting everything dropped off at the proper place. He even drove several hours to pick the engine up from Ade. He was extremely reasonable with his fee for putting it all together for me, got everything done in a timely fashion, and was great with communication along the way. Again, many thanks to Mark. All in all it was a pretty painless experience. Mark had a few pieces and parts that I needed for the engine and also offered up a North American spec generator head that he had at a very agreeable price.

Everything was now on a ship working it's way to the US. It arrived in port and started making it's overland journey down the East Coast to me. I hired a bonding agent on this end of the shipment as customs wants someone registered, bonded, and insured to file the country of origin and BOL documentation. Customs was great to deal with, I had printed and filled out every imaginable document I thought they would even remotely need including for the EPA. The officer working the customs desk at my local port was a cutie and I may or may not have done a little flirting to help the possibility of getting my documentation accepted. She commented that I was one of the most prepared people she had ever dealt with and happily stamped and filed my paperwork also thanking me for making her job so easy. One quick phone call to the the inspection officer and they cleared my shipment for pick up. Funny thing was he specifically asked if it was an original English lister, or an Indian or Chinese one. I guess they were on the lookout for clone engines for some reason. One last thank you to the cute customs lady and I was off to a bonded warehouse to pick up my shipment. Fast forward 18 months and here we are. My lister and generator head have been sitting in the corner of my shop waiting for me to have some time to work on them. Other than walking over and spinning the flywheels while making chugging noises like a 5 year old I haven't done a thing with them.

Here is a little about the engine and generator head. The engine is a 5/1 built in 1954 with a spec plate rating of 6hp@650. It has the heavy SOM flywheels and was missing a few bits and pieces. It has been back to lister at some point and was bored and rebuilt .010" oversize. There is a brass tag denoting the service attached to the cylinder barrel. I located a few of the missing parts surprisingly on ebay here in the US for next to nothing before the engine had even left Ade's garage. They were original English parts that had been left behind in someone's garage at some point. I snatched them up for a few dollars and set about looking for the rest. It is currently not in running condition but I plan to remedy that in short order. The alternator is a Stamford New Age model ES8. It is a 4kw head and has a 24VDC starting and charging winding just like the original SOM heads. It was attached to Mark's 8/1 when I bought it.

Being an SOM engine it is lacking any of the parts necessary for manual starting and the solenoid had been removed. It is also missing a fuel tank. I have picked up originals for as many of the missing parts as I could and will likely get the remainder of items from Gary at DES. My plan is to start this project with building a mounting base. I have a couple of questions and am looking for a little input as far as materials and construction. I have read through a lot of info both here and elsewhere on the web trying to narrow down the best material to build a base out of. For now I am just looking for a skid of sorts with the ability to later anchor it to a concrete pad when I get around to building a generator shed. I am leaning in the direction of a pair of 4"x6" wood runners and fabricating a base out of 3"x3" angle iron to sit between/on top of the runners. I saw a good write-up somewhere where someone had done something similar. I have also seen everything from channel iron to I beam used. I am considering 3"x3"x3/8" angle iron, but have seen everything from 1/2" plate to some thinner metal used. Any advice or examples from you guys that have been in this boat would be much appreciated. I am also looking for dimensions. It seems most of the original lister bases were about 45-48" long and about 24" wide.

Sorry about the book I wrote. Here are a couple of pictures of what I am working with. They are pics of when everything was still in England as I haven't taken any pics of it sitting in the corner of my shop.




« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 08:48:19 PM by broncodriver99 »

BruceM

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 02:28:35 AM »
She looks like a great project engine.  I'm drooling over those flywheels, and all that original spec Brit iron. 

Enjoy!

38ac

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 12:49:54 PM »
So dont be boring us with any more stories eh,,
 ;D ;D ;D

Looks like an ice engine, please keep us informed as you go on with it.
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vdubnut62

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 03:03:27 PM »
Very Nice! Pssst, you shoulda twisted Ade's arm to dig you up a startomatic base since you had to ship it anyway. But don't say I said so. ::)
Ron.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous

broncodriver99

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2016, 05:16:56 PM »
Thanks fellas.

@BruceM Me too. I can't wait to get it running.

@38ac Will do. Do you have your shop in operation yet? I saw your videos on youtube and figured if this engine needs to be sleeved you would be the man for the job.

@vdubnut62 I wish I had. That is what I would really like to find. The original plan for this engine was an ST head but Mark later offered up the Stamford head which I couldn't refuse.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 05:18:27 PM by broncodriver99 »

Tom

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2016, 05:35:04 PM »
This post has some good pics of what I did with my frame. You are welcome to borrow any ideas you think might be useful. http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?163918-My-Listeroid-Generator&highlight=listeroid

Here's a pic of it mounted in it's final destination. The genset now has almost 2400 hours on it.

Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

38ac

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2016, 10:45:26 PM »
It will likely be mid summer before the boring mill is back in operation. be glad to do your work if needed and you can wait.
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dieselgman

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 01:00:13 AM »
We have some of the Dursley cast bases and can provide measurements if you like... I also have seen some pretty nice bases fabricated from common steel stocks that were every bit as good as the original iron.

BTW the cylinder sleeves you did for me were excellent Butch! Very good work! Couldn't hardly tell the reworked cylinders from brand new ones (where it really counts at least). Everything went together like a dream!

dieselgman
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veggie

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2016, 01:34:11 AM »

Congratulations on acquiring a true Lister SOM.
A rear breed these days.

<wiping the drool off my keyboard>   >:(

veggie
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broncodriver99

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2016, 11:30:27 PM »
We have some of the Dursley cast bases and can provide measurements if you like...

dieselgman

That would be great. And, if you are tired of tripping over one of them I may be interested.  ;D

mike90045

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 12:03:41 AM »
This post has some good pics of what I did with my frame. You are welcome to borrow any ideas you think might be useful. http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?163918-My-Listeroid-Generator&highlight=listeroid   
timebomb2000 won't show pic's to non-members :(

Tom

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2016, 02:49:20 AM »
Thanks Mike, didn't that.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

broncodriver99

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2016, 07:01:02 AM »
Tom, I visited the page but as Mike said membership is required. I will get signed up in the next couple of days to check out your pics. Thanks for the link. Great profile pic by the way. Big Jefferson fan here.

I am now leaning towards a channel iron frame that will eventually get embedded in concrete and filled. I have been taking note of the equipment I work on and noticed that the quietest of the refrigeration plants that I work on have an I beam or channel iron base that is set and then a monolithic concrete curb and infill is poured. These plants are noticeably quieter than where the steel skid is just set and anchored to a concrete slab. Channel iron seems to be the most popular material. I am looking at either a 3" or 4" C channel. What do you guys think would be sufficient dimensionally for the steel? I figure a 3"H (maybe 4")x2"W channel iron with some cross bracing would be pretty sturdy. It would be on a wood skid for now but eventually end up in a concrete slab.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 07:32:52 AM by broncodriver99 »

broncodriver99

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2016, 07:07:30 AM »
...Double post

broncodriver99

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Re: Introduction/ New project/ Questions
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2016, 02:02:58 AM »
Finally a little update. I have been working on the base as time permits and it is almost done. I just realized it has been two months since I started on this project and finally some progress. I studied pictures of both the original Lister cast iron and fabricated steel bases and came up with what I thought would work well that I could build with available materials and my skill set.

My material list consists of a 20' stick of 5" x 9 lbs. channel iron, 2' of 4" wide X 5/16" thick steel plate, and 2' of 8" wide X 3/8" thick steel plate as well as a few small misc. pieces I had laying around.

I had the pleasure of fabricating the rectangular outer section of the base twice.  >:( I started out by tacking everything together on a set of sawhorses. Everything measured square and plumb so I went to town burning everything in. Well, I guess I didn't realize how much heavy steel pulls when laying hot welds and I ended up with a parallelogram. It pulled about 3/8" out of square and there was no way to straighten it out. I probably could have worked around it and made it usable but it would have bugged the heck out of me, so I decided to salvage what I could of the steel and start over. I realized that I needed a better work space and since my main workbench is covered in tools and mechanical parts that I don't want weld spatter and slag all over I decided to build myself a 4'x4' work table. There went another weekend.

With my new work table, some new heavy C clamps, and plenty of bracing I set about starting round two. I was able to salvage most of the steel and had enough left over that I hadn't used the first go round to make it a second time. I made sure to clamp everything down well this time. It was a lot of cutting, fitting , and welding some of which I had to do twice.  ::) I made my own adjustment/slide system for the generator head. There is an adjustment bolt on the end of the base that drives a screw which pushes or pulls the mounting studs for the generator head. I didn't get any pictures of the underside of the mechanism but will next time. Cutting the slots was a real pain. I started out with a Dremel as they are easy to control and cut straight with. About 10 minutes in and one half of a slot and it let out the magic smoke and no more worky. I then switched over to an angle grinder and cut off wheel which was much faster but a little harder to control. Once the slots were done I squared them with the bolt pattern for the Lister and burned everything in. I finished up the last of the welding today and after a twice over with a wire wheel started priming and painting. I used Rustoleum Industrial enamel in Hunter Green which is pretty close to the original green. I ran out of paint with only a little left to go and now have to wait a couple of days for it to cure before I can finish. Grrr....

I had some reclaimed 4"x6" heart pine laying around that I cut into 3 sections that will be lagged to the bottom of the base until I find a more permanent home for it. Anyway, here are a few pictures of what I came up with. Hopefully I can get the paint finished up in a couple of days and start mounting the generator head and Lister shortly after.








« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 08:51:44 PM by broncodriver99 »