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Author Topic: Lister 16-2  (Read 1291 times)

Bpineo

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Lister 16-2
« on: September 04, 2017, 01:09:09 PM »
Hello.  I am new to the forum and could use some advice based on your experiences with these engines.  I have recently set up a 16-2 from the mid 1970's for power generation.  The engine starts on both cylinders and runs well, but I have one issue that I need help with.  The explosions of fuel in each cylinder are different.  One cylinder has a loud report each time it fires and the other is quite muffled.  Also, the exhaust temperature is much cooler on the quieter cylinder.   Both cylinders have exceptional compression and no "leakage" can be heard sneaking by a valve when rolled over slowly.  I have checked lifter clearances and I know the rings were replaced a short time ago (and again, there seems to be no leakage detected of compression past the rings when rolled over slow). Is this a dirty injector problem?  I do notice that this cylinder that seems weak does give off puffs of black smoke at start-up only while getting up to speed.  Any thoughts on how to bring her back to specs?  Brandon 

starfire

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Re: Lister 16-2
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 01:40:54 PM »
Im no expert on twin deisels, but Id check the linkages are opening both pumps equally as a preliminary check. With motorbike twins, to synch the carbs, one cylinder  is disabled by shorting the plug lead, the other carb is set up to run the engine at a known rpm. Then the other cylinder is adjusted  the same way. Then with both cylinders operating, the idle  speed can be adjusted.
The same approach should work on a diesel twin, read pumps instead of carburettors.....
If injectors or pumps are suspected faulty, try swapping them side to side., if the weak cylinder follows, you have isolated the problem. Just do one thing at a time, else confusion quickly sets in.
Thats what I would do......

LowGear

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Re: Lister 16-2
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 01:45:39 PM »
Quote
If injectors or pumps are suspected faulty, try swapping them side to side., if the weak cylinder follows, you have isolated the problem. Just do one thing at a time, else confusion quickly sets in.
Thats what I would do......

Me too.
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dieselgman

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Re: Lister 16-2
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 03:53:59 PM »
Im no expert on twin deisels, but Id check the linkages are opening both pumps equally as a preliminary check. With motorbike twins, to synch the carbs, one cylinder  is disabled by shorting the plug lead, the other carb is set up to run the engine at a known rpm. Then the other cylinder is adjusted  the same way. Then with both cylinders operating, the idle  speed can be adjusted.
The same approach should work on a diesel twin, read pumps instead of carburettors.....
If injectors or pumps are suspected faulty, try swapping them side to side., if the weak cylinder follows, you have isolated the problem. Just do one thing at a time, else confusion quickly sets in.
Thats what I would do......

The logic is sound... many mechanics take this approach as most expedient to isolate a problem. There will be some slight alterations based on how the Lister operates.

Here is my own take on dealing with multi-cylinder diesel engine tuning:

isolate a problem cylinder: checking and comparing cylinder exhaust temps while the engine is under load. Usually within 10 or 15 degrees Fahrenheit is OK, more than that and you can dig deeper.

Once you know if and which cylinder is weaker, you can start with the easy stuff - check valve adjustments, re-test, check synchronization of the fuel pumps - a little linkage adjustment can make a big difference, test and compare injectors for pressures and spray patterns... it can be more important that they match each other than compared with a manual spec, check injection timing... both cylinders obviously must match up.

If the above items all test good and the symptom remains, it is still possible that one or more is at fault... this is where the parts swapping between cylinders can sometimes help. It is also possible that other factors in the combustion chamber could be at fault. Compression testing is possible in very difficult diagnosis cases.

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mike90045

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Re: Lister 16-2
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 04:02:32 PM »
Don't swap pumps yet !!

Try swapping injectors.  If that does not work, then check the Timing on both pumps.

Each pump is calibrated to the cam on it's side, if you swap pumps, you for SURE have to adjust timing on each.

Bpineo

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Re: Lister 16-2
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 12:34:15 AM »
Thank you for the quick replies!  I will start on the things listed above.  Can someone explain the Cylinder "Bump" settings?  What is it and how is this changed?  I do not see this term in any of the lister operating manuals.  Brandon 

38ac

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Re: Lister 16-2
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 12:45:13 AM »
Edit, correcting all the typos sorry , I should not post from my phone  :(

The #2 cylinder on a twin (the one opposite the governor and shut down lever) will almost always be lazy on an engine with a few hours on it. It is due to wear in the pins, clevises and pivots in all the linkage that operates the pump rack. If it is lazy on #1 it's because somebody fiddled with the linkage that didn't know what they were doing, often because the shut down lever wont kill the the engine so they adjust the linkage to kill the #2 side.
 Since it appears to run fine otherwise I wouldn't rush to move parts around. Start the engine and with your finger push the rack open a bit on the lazy cylinder. If that cures your ills then adjust the linkage so that the #2 pump tack opens a bit further until firing is even. A heat gun point at the exhaust is handy to set them perfect but a person can also do it  by applying enough load to make it smoke and make both side smoke similarly or a well trained ear can also be used.

As I eluded to earlier when the linkage is worn badly you cannot achieve even firing and still kill both cylinders with the shutdown lever.  If you run into that you can either rebuild the linkage or simply push that pump rack closed with a finger. Its more important to have even firing than shutdown via the lever,,
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 01:34:06 PM by 38ac »
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38ac

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Re: Lister 16-2
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 01:44:09 PM »
  Can someone explain the Cylinder "Bump" settings?  What is it and how is this changed?  I do not see this term in any of the lister operating manuals.  Brandon

That's because it is called "cylinder head clearance" in the Lister manuals. The specs are listed in the technical specifications which I listed on page 3  in my build thread in the WOK section here but I am pretty sure it is also in the operators manual. 
It is the clearance between the top of the piston and the cylinder head at top dead center and the amount of clearance controls the compression pressure. To little clearance means more than needed pressure and it is hard on the works. Too little and the engine will be hard to start. How it is adjusted depends on the engine and what caused it to be out of spec to begin with. On a CS it is adjusted via shim gaskets between the cylinders and crankcase.  If the clearance has grown out of spec on a used engines it is likely that there are problems with the connecting rod or main bearings.  and such issues  should not be corrected by removing shims under the cylinder but by correcting the actual problems. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 01:49:00 PM by 38ac »
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cujet

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Re: Lister 16-2
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 11:49:57 AM »
Why not first try to adjust the fuel rack linkage for even fuel distribution? You could do this by matching exhaust temp under a medium load. That way both cylinders are pulling the same load.

The other thing I would consider is injection timing. With troubleshooting, I always like to start with the basics.
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