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Author Topic: 6/1 CS Dating  (Read 10597 times)

Jake65mm

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6/1 CS Dating
« on: November 15, 2015, 11:16:05 PM »
I have read some previous forums about lister dating but got rather confused.
I have a Lister CS 6/1 with 5/1-E4 on each flywheel E48, 8-2-101 and 21 F 55 on the main housing with serial # 67616 on the plate.
Thanks
Jake

38ac

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2015, 11:59:35 PM »
Engine number 67616 is 1949 production
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LowGear

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2015, 09:10:54 PM »
Gosh and I thought you had met someone at an auction or something.

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vdubnut62

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2015, 12:19:50 AM »
Casey, PUHleeese!!!!! ::)
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Jake65mm

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2015, 01:48:16 PM »
Ha thats kinda funny my girlfriend thinks I have someone else stashed away in the shop as much time as I spend out here.
Gosh and I thought you had met someone at an auction or something.

Cheers,



AdeV

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 09:20:20 PM »
It might be a 1965 rather than a 1949... the split would be Engine no. 67, type 6/1, year 1950 + 6.

It all depends if it has "CS" printed in front of the number....

If YES, then it's a 1949. If NO, then it's (most likely) a 1956...

Cheers!
Ade.
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richardhula

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 11:48:52 PM »
It might be a 1965 rather than a 1949... the split would be Engine no. 67, type 6/1, year 1950 + 6.

It all depends if it has "CS" printed in front of the number....

If YES, then it's a 1949. If NO, then it's (most likely) a 1956...



According to the Lister model production years table, the 6/1 was built from 1962-1974, replacing the 5/1 which ceased production at the introduction of the 650 rpm model.

If it is indeed a 6/1 its unlikely to be either of the dates you suggested although I'm suspicious of the 5/1 markings on the flywheel. If it is a 600 rpm 5/1 then the 1949 build date seems likely, although agree the serial # should have CS prefix. Wonder if its a bitza.

listeroil

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 12:31:39 AM »
There is another way of dating a genuine Lister CS engine.  This information has been copied and pasted from the UK Lister CSOG  and it goes like this.

You can always look on the crankcase, on the opposite side to the
injection pump, right above the crankshaft bearing housing you will
find foundry casting marks telling you the month and year that it was
cast. It will be something like 15-A-53
Where 15 is the day or batch number, A is the month, where A=Jan,
B=Feb etc and 53 is the year.

Mick

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 02:08:49 AM »
Thanks Mick... that is very helpful. There is obviously nothing simple about Lister CS engine dating. Many decades of changes are involved.

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38ac

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2015, 10:01:34 AM »
6/1 VS 5/1 and when?
 Edgington's book is very educational and fact filled but somewhere buried in the moving pile at the moment so I cant list any actual dates. I can state that when the 6/1 appeared depends on how you wish the cut the hair "is it a 6/1"  Lister built 6HP 650 RPM engines a VERY long time prior to 1962, that is a well known fact.  The very fist CS I owned was a 1938 production 6HP 650 RPM version. However in parts books and other literature all 5 and 6HP engines were called 5/1 for a period of time,  probably because there was no difference in a 5/1 or 6/1 other than how far they stretched the governor spring. Seems simple enough but complicates conversations on the subject today.  In my nomenclature the 1938 CS I owned was a 6/1, Lister called them a 6/1 but look in a parts book its a 5/1. Something as simple as naming a badging an engine shouldn't be so complicated,  :D And Ade is right, it is a rare example that hasn't seen parts added since it left the factory, at least in the examples  that pass through my shop.  I do wish I hadn't let that 1938 6/1 slip out of my fingers as it was all original and as it should be right down to the injector leak off can with the lid.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 10:03:58 AM by 38ac »
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Jake65mm

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 05:41:03 PM »
I think your correct here, the tag doesn't say CS on it and the main casting ends in 55. So im asuming it is a 56 then
It might be a 1965 rather than a 1949... the split would be Engine no. 67, type 6/1, year 1950 + 6.

It all depends if it has "CS" printed in front of the number....

If YES, then it's a 1949. If NO, then it's (most likely) a 1956...



richardhula

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 11:22:00 PM »
6/1 VS 5/1 and when?
 Edgington's book is very educational and fact filled but somewhere buried in the moving pile at the moment so I cant list any actual dates. I can state that when the 6/1 appeared depends on how you wish the cut the hair "is it a 6/1"  Lister built 6HP 650 RPM engines a VERY long time prior to 1962, that is a well known fact.  The very fist CS I owned was a 1938 production 6HP 650 RPM version. However in parts books and other literature all 5 and 6HP engines were called 5/1 for a period of time,  probably because there was no difference in a 5/1 or 6/1 other than how far they stretched the governor spring. Seems simple enough but complicates conversations on the subject today.  In my nomenclature the 1938 CS I owned was a 6/1, Lister called them a 6/1 but look in a parts book its a 5/1. Something as simple as naming a badging an engine shouldn't be so complicated,  :D And Ade is right, it is a rare example that hasn't seen parts added since it left the factory, at least in the examples  that pass through my shop.  I do wish I hadn't let that 1938 6/1 slip out of my fingers as it was all original and as it should be right down to the injector leak off can with the lid.

That info ties in to some degree with this article, with the renaming (to 650 rpm power outputs) taking place in 1962. Doesn't explain your pre WWII version though.

38ac

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2015, 11:49:16 PM »
Richard,  here is another 650RPM 6HP CS that happens to be at the shop for work. Earlier I had glanced at a serial number page and thought it to be a 39 but that casting date Mick spoke of is also visible placing it in 1940. I will be near it tomorrow and Ill try to remember to get a pic of the tag.
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richardhula

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Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2015, 11:01:16 AM »
Thanks Butch. Interesting to see although as you suggested might simply be just a tweak on the governor for earlier versions. It would seem the serial number is the best guide to engine build dating since its repeated on the flywheel on some models at least. On the JP series (also with CS number prefix) I am more familiar with, both 1000 and 1200 rpm governor weights were available with I believe some intermediary ones. In any case have ordered Dave Edgingtons CS book, and a signed copy is in the post to me so look forward to further insight.