Author Topic: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications  (Read 165866 times)

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #915 on: February 19, 2019, 09:35:34 AM »

C'mon pal, you're the chip oil king around here...bugger the solar cr@p, sync a few small gensets together and run the neighborhood!!

The way Private enterprise and the green zealots are destroying our power system, I have taken on a serious commitment to get some oil powered  generation happening.
Have taken a big step already, Cleared a spot in the shed to locate the 12 Kw induction motor and Engine. Going to put it right near the solar inverters and where the power comes into the shed.  Also found a 10 Kva gen head but just trying to get the seller down to a reasonable price.

Trying to buy another little china diesel and a 10A Genny and also bought another 4 KW of later edition panels and an inverter. I'll replace some of my older lower wattage stuff with those and sell the others..... or not. Plenty of Roof left, could always just re-locate them.

My " leftover" and " orphan " panel collection is growing still. Started off as panels I had leftovers and odd numbers of that didn't fit with the rest of the systems I set up and thought I'd put up anyway as getting something from them was better than nothing. Put some others up there the other day and today realised they are 6kw in total.  Pulled 20 Kwh out of them today even though they are mismatched, oriented in 3 different directions, different tilts and generally wrong in every way as per solar preached practice.

Not bad returns for a bunch of low wattage, old badly set up modules and an old inverter rated at half the panels output connected to it.

Got to love the Mrs. I told her about the things I want to buy and why. Told her I'd need $500 for the later panels and something else I had to get.
Messaged her at work today and said " Don't forget the $5000 I need. "  Phone rings 20 sec later and I am laughing to myself thinking this will be good, she is going to light up about  the 5K.

I got it all right,  Why did I leave it so late to remind her about the money?  She can't drop everything and just run to the bank, has to do it in her lunchtime.  She thought I said $500 which she can get from the ATM on the way home but $5k she has to go to the bank for and now she'll have to rush down there and back as she has things to do at work this afternoon. When do I need it, can she get it tomorrow and I go pick it up later in the week?..."

I was so tempted to say nothing.  But I couldn't.  Just said $500 would be fine for now and I was still negotiating the rest and would tell her is it went ahead.  She never even queried the $5k, just was annoyed I didn't remind her to get it earlier. 

I got a winner there, unfortunately she got the booby prize in me.

Today I built a " Smudgepot/ Dragon/ orchard heater" type burner for the garden.  I'm paranoid about loosing more plants to the frost again this winter and was thinking what to do about it.  I thought about a fan blowing air around which would be easy but I was worried about making things worse with windchill.  I learned that the fans are up high and bring warmer air down.  Not practical for me.  Blowing warm air from a burner however would be very doable.  Though about burners and figured a smudgepot type with a 20L Capacity should burn ok.  fire it up before bed and should burn for plenty of hours through the night and into the morning till the sun comes up.

Another excuse to go back out and start collecting god's fuel before it all disappears with winter as well.  1000L ought to get me though with burners and gennys so have to get cracking.


BruceM

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #916 on: February 19, 2019, 05:00:40 PM »
Ed raises a good point about the potential issue of GTI compatibility with a high THD and spiky sine source.  It's yet another gotcha.  I don't think I'd be willing to risk both GTI and generator head on such an experiment, though I'd love to watch. :)



EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #917 on: February 19, 2019, 07:59:53 PM »
Continuing the saga of "And now for Something Completely Different".... Otherwise known as "PLC's, Auto Start Generators and Inverters, Getting them to play nicely!"

Here is a link to the Logo Software - Demo version, fully functional with simulator et al, just cannot download a project to a PLC:

https://w3.siemens.com/mcms/programmable-logic-controller/en/logic-module-logo/demo-software/pages/default.aspx#Demo_20software

and attached hereto is the little proggie I wrote... in zip format... The umpteenth revision thereof, shoehorned into the few memory places the little Logo has, with a few extra features I managed to include after hacking out a few things and changing some push buttons to SPST switches, allowing me to add a little more useful logic into it....

Basic info needed to run this thru the simulator is (a little imagination required here chaps):

Genset:
The genset will autostart if mains power drops away from the mains input, it will continue running until mains power re presents itself again.
The genset can be switched from auto-start to manual mode, this is what I will use to turn the gennie on with by using a plc output/relay instead of turning an ignition key.
The inverter has a single "Normally Open" contact that will close on low battery, remaining closed until the battery level is back up to a predefined preset.

Things are pretty much connected in a straight stripe -
Mains in -> Mains Sensing Relay -> Mains Input Isolating Contactor -> Genset Proper -> Mains Output Sensing relay -> Inverter/Solar Mains Input -> Inverter -> Inverter Output to the rest of the DB Board

For mains sensing relays, there is simply 220v on the coil of a relay...If the 220v buggers off, the relay goes to open state, the plc picks this up and responds accordingly.

As far as controls go, there are only three -
A start Fault reset - If the gennie doesn't start within the preset time, start and further operation is aborted.
Enable System - When this is off, the gennie will not start or run, unless it is switched to manual on the gennie itself.
Isolate Mains input to gennie - When off, the mains input into the gennie is....well ...not there.....

Indicators and Idiot Lights:
Controller Enabled
Start Fault

Relays/Contactors:
One relay to sense power from the mains.
One relay to sense power out the ass end of the gennie.(when mains is present, and the gennie isn't running, the mains power is bridged through the gennie automatically as one of its internal functions)
One relay to control the auto start feature on the Gennie
One Contactor to make the mains input to the gennie... be.... uhhh ....not there...

If you get around to running the sim, Its quite a bit of fun, if you're into this sort of thing, set all the inputs and outputs and watch what happens when you present a myriad of thing to my little proggie that I never thought about... Break it and tell me how you did, so I can make it idio....sorry, operator proof!

Have fun!!

(And should you find this proggie useful, please do not hesitate to send me a pint via email!)

Keep it switching...

Cheers
Ed
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 08:27:21 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #918 on: February 19, 2019, 09:49:09 PM »
Ed raises a good point about the potential issue of GTI compatibility with a high THD and spiky sine source.

Not being as Learned as you and Ed, all I know is there are other things going on that I am not aware of which would make me cautious but interested in the idea.

From my ignorance, I would say if the gen power is too far out the GTI simply won't hook up or will try again till it does. Once locked up I would think that within the programed parameters it should follow and match the gennys output.

There are also a lot of Different GTI's and I know of non that don't look at frequency, earth leakage, voltage and other things.  I know our standards for these things are pretty high here ( over the top) so perhaps what works with units meant for other places would not work here.

I have some pretty old inverters including things that weight a ton that have great hulking torroids but they all have the grid match check and fault dropouts.

ajaffa1

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #919 on: February 25, 2019, 08:32:42 AM »
Hey Glort, further to our conversation on another thread, I emailed Stephen at Ozlisteroids this morning. I haven`t had a reply yet but will let you know as soon as I do.

Bob

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #920 on: February 25, 2019, 11:12:56 AM »

Thanks Bob.
I found he isn't the easiest guy to get onto.

Just been looking for engines.  Found a Ruggerini the same as I bought last year. Guy wants $4K.  I paid $200 for mine and it's perfect.
When I bought it guy said he had been advertising it everywhere and I was the only enquiry after 3  Months.  Maybe this guy will come around in time as well?

I really would like a water cooled though. The aircooled engines make a racket and are hard to silence allowing for airflow where as a Liquid cooled you can seal up  with an in and out for water and an exhaust and inlet and they can be very quiet.

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #921 on: March 13, 2019, 05:28:44 PM »
Hey Girls and Non-Girls...

Been busy with a weird and wonderful project waste of time thingy task!

I got the shitz with everybody disturbing my workbench dining room table, while I was designing plc and electronic gizmos and the like... I tend to get a bit nervous pissed off when a cup of tea gets balance on top of the air vents on my Phillips dual trace scope or my Motorola spectrum analyzer... I am no longer in a cash position to replace them, so treat with care be bloody careful when using them is the "order of the day"... Granted, the old motorola only goes to a gig, but its "old school" good stuff, and I would like to keep it working for as long as possible... (along with all the other misc. bits and bobs I have picked up over the years...)

A solution was found:

I have an aluminium shipping container that was put in the front yard a good few years ago, wired to power (solar and Lister backed up of course) and this was "lent" to a young chap to do leather work type stuff, whilst he was between jobs, just something to keep his hands busy and make some pocket money to keep going... He moved on a year or two back and the little workshop has been standing pretty much empty as a store room since then...

Here goes the devil finding things to keep me busy...again....

I cleaned the place up, it is not a full 6m unit, the back 2m are partitioned off with a side door to access... This back partition is used as a "reloading room" that I keep all my presses, molding, sizing and priming kit in... too many toys so little time...but, I digress as usual...

Right, back on track, the front 4m or so, with access from the double doors, I have converted into a small, small, tiny little electronics workshop. All that was needed was to bring the component drawers in, the scopes, the analyzers, the multi meters, the measuring kit, the solder stations, the..... and the list goes on... Needless to say, its 4 weeks later, I am still finding test and measuring equipment all over the place, the little electronics workshop is full, and, at the very least, I am not getting tea, beer and coffee spilt into my coveted gizmos that I am making or using to break fix things with...

Initially, I was planning on turning this little place into a "hobby room" - a place to do some of my R/C heli modelling and construction, or, at the very least a place I could set up my model of the "HMS Victory" I am busy building (busy is a very "loose" word, I've been at it for about 20 years, the main hull and decks are done, masts, rigging and sails left to do)... Needless to say, HMS V and my 2x.30 Hirobo Shuttles are not really anywhere near the "hobby room" due to lack of space... Stuffit... I think I must just take over the whole damn house and kick all the residents into the workshop tents.....

On the bright side, its good fun to have an electronics workshop again, I never realised how much I missed having one previously! Wonderful to get the shitz with a project and be able to walk away, to come back 3 days later and carry on without having to unpack stuff from storage or try to find stuff that was "tidied up"!!

Already had a chance to fix up a few 2 way radios that were a bit worse for wear as well as many, many small things that I have "put one side" until I could find time...

Quite honestly, now I am running out of excuses and reasons for not finishing off TM1's rebuild...

Oh wait...there's that .308 and the .243 that I got the other day... Need to go test them first before I get all diesel-oily.....

Another day, another reason, another excuse....

Keep it spinning....

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!