Author Topic: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications  (Read 171344 times)

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #915 on: February 19, 2019, 09:35:34 AM »

C'mon pal, you're the chip oil king around here...bugger the solar cr@p, sync a few small gensets together and run the neighborhood!!

The way Private enterprise and the green zealots are destroying our power system, I have taken on a serious commitment to get some oil powered  generation happening.
Have taken a big step already, Cleared a spot in the shed to locate the 12 Kw induction motor and Engine. Going to put it right near the solar inverters and where the power comes into the shed.  Also found a 10 Kva gen head but just trying to get the seller down to a reasonable price.

Trying to buy another little china diesel and a 10A Genny and also bought another 4 KW of later edition panels and an inverter. I'll replace some of my older lower wattage stuff with those and sell the others..... or not. Plenty of Roof left, could always just re-locate them.

My " leftover" and " orphan " panel collection is growing still. Started off as panels I had leftovers and odd numbers of that didn't fit with the rest of the systems I set up and thought I'd put up anyway as getting something from them was better than nothing. Put some others up there the other day and today realised they are 6kw in total.  Pulled 20 Kwh out of them today even though they are mismatched, oriented in 3 different directions, different tilts and generally wrong in every way as per solar preached practice.

Not bad returns for a bunch of low wattage, old badly set up modules and an old inverter rated at half the panels output connected to it.

Got to love the Mrs. I told her about the things I want to buy and why. Told her I'd need $500 for the later panels and something else I had to get.
Messaged her at work today and said " Don't forget the $5000 I need. "  Phone rings 20 sec later and I am laughing to myself thinking this will be good, she is going to light up about  the 5K.

I got it all right,  Why did I leave it so late to remind her about the money?  She can't drop everything and just run to the bank, has to do it in her lunchtime.  She thought I said $500 which she can get from the ATM on the way home but $5k she has to go to the bank for and now she'll have to rush down there and back as she has things to do at work this afternoon. When do I need it, can she get it tomorrow and I go pick it up later in the week?..."

I was so tempted to say nothing.  But I couldn't.  Just said $500 would be fine for now and I was still negotiating the rest and would tell her is it went ahead.  She never even queried the $5k, just was annoyed I didn't remind her to get it earlier. 

I got a winner there, unfortunately she got the booby prize in me.

Today I built a " Smudgepot/ Dragon/ orchard heater" type burner for the garden.  I'm paranoid about loosing more plants to the frost again this winter and was thinking what to do about it.  I thought about a fan blowing air around which would be easy but I was worried about making things worse with windchill.  I learned that the fans are up high and bring warmer air down.  Not practical for me.  Blowing warm air from a burner however would be very doable.  Though about burners and figured a smudgepot type with a 20L Capacity should burn ok.  fire it up before bed and should burn for plenty of hours through the night and into the morning till the sun comes up.

Another excuse to go back out and start collecting god's fuel before it all disappears with winter as well.  1000L ought to get me though with burners and gennys so have to get cracking.


BruceM

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #916 on: February 19, 2019, 05:00:40 PM »
Ed raises a good point about the potential issue of GTI compatibility with a high THD and spiky sine source.  It's yet another gotcha.  I don't think I'd be willing to risk both GTI and generator head on such an experiment, though I'd love to watch. :)



EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #917 on: February 19, 2019, 07:59:53 PM »
Continuing the saga of "And now for Something Completely Different".... Otherwise known as "PLC's, Auto Start Generators and Inverters, Getting them to play nicely!"

Here is a link to the Logo Software - Demo version, fully functional with simulator et al, just cannot download a project to a PLC:

https://w3.siemens.com/mcms/programmable-logic-controller/en/logic-module-logo/demo-software/pages/default.aspx#Demo_20software

and attached hereto is the little proggie I wrote... in zip format... The umpteenth revision thereof, shoehorned into the few memory places the little Logo has, with a few extra features I managed to include after hacking out a few things and changing some push buttons to SPST switches, allowing me to add a little more useful logic into it....

Basic info needed to run this thru the simulator is (a little imagination required here chaps):

Genset:
The genset will autostart if mains power drops away from the mains input, it will continue running until mains power re presents itself again.
The genset can be switched from auto-start to manual mode, this is what I will use to turn the gennie on with by using a plc output/relay instead of turning an ignition key.
The inverter has a single "Normally Open" contact that will close on low battery, remaining closed until the battery level is back up to a predefined preset.

Things are pretty much connected in a straight stripe -
Mains in -> Mains Sensing Relay -> Mains Input Isolating Contactor -> Genset Proper -> Mains Output Sensing relay -> Inverter/Solar Mains Input -> Inverter -> Inverter Output to the rest of the DB Board

For mains sensing relays, there is simply 220v on the coil of a relay...If the 220v buggers off, the relay goes to open state, the plc picks this up and responds accordingly.

As far as controls go, there are only three -
A start Fault reset - If the gennie doesn't start within the preset time, start and further operation is aborted.
Enable System - When this is off, the gennie will not start or run, unless it is switched to manual on the gennie itself.
Isolate Mains input to gennie - When off, the mains input into the gennie is....well ...not there.....

Indicators and Idiot Lights:
Controller Enabled
Start Fault

Relays/Contactors:
One relay to sense power from the mains.
One relay to sense power out the ass end of the gennie.(when mains is present, and the gennie isn't running, the mains power is bridged through the gennie automatically as one of its internal functions)
One relay to control the auto start feature on the Gennie
One Contactor to make the mains input to the gennie... be.... uhhh ....not there...

If you get around to running the sim, Its quite a bit of fun, if you're into this sort of thing, set all the inputs and outputs and watch what happens when you present a myriad of thing to my little proggie that I never thought about... Break it and tell me how you did, so I can make it idio....sorry, operator proof!

Have fun!!

(And should you find this proggie useful, please do not hesitate to send me a pint via email!)

Keep it switching...

Cheers
Ed
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 08:27:21 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #918 on: February 19, 2019, 09:49:09 PM »
Ed raises a good point about the potential issue of GTI compatibility with a high THD and spiky sine source.

Not being as Learned as you and Ed, all I know is there are other things going on that I am not aware of which would make me cautious but interested in the idea.

From my ignorance, I would say if the gen power is too far out the GTI simply won't hook up or will try again till it does. Once locked up I would think that within the programed parameters it should follow and match the gennys output.

There are also a lot of Different GTI's and I know of non that don't look at frequency, earth leakage, voltage and other things.  I know our standards for these things are pretty high here ( over the top) so perhaps what works with units meant for other places would not work here.

I have some pretty old inverters including things that weight a ton that have great hulking torroids but they all have the grid match check and fault dropouts.

ajaffa1

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #919 on: February 25, 2019, 08:32:42 AM »
Hey Glort, further to our conversation on another thread, I emailed Stephen at Ozlisteroids this morning. I haven`t had a reply yet but will let you know as soon as I do.

Bob

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #920 on: February 25, 2019, 11:12:56 AM »

Thanks Bob.
I found he isn't the easiest guy to get onto.

Just been looking for engines.  Found a Ruggerini the same as I bought last year. Guy wants $4K.  I paid $200 for mine and it's perfect.
When I bought it guy said he had been advertising it everywhere and I was the only enquiry after 3  Months.  Maybe this guy will come around in time as well?

I really would like a water cooled though. The aircooled engines make a racket and are hard to silence allowing for airflow where as a Liquid cooled you can seal up  with an in and out for water and an exhaust and inlet and they can be very quiet.

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #921 on: March 13, 2019, 05:28:44 PM »
Hey Girls and Non-Girls...

Been busy with a weird and wonderful project waste of time thingy task!

I got the shitz with everybody disturbing my workbench dining room table, while I was designing plc and electronic gizmos and the like... I tend to get a bit nervous pissed off when a cup of tea gets balance on top of the air vents on my Phillips dual trace scope or my Motorola spectrum analyzer... I am no longer in a cash position to replace them, so treat with care be bloody careful when using them is the "order of the day"... Granted, the old motorola only goes to a gig, but its "old school" good stuff, and I would like to keep it working for as long as possible... (along with all the other misc. bits and bobs I have picked up over the years...)

A solution was found:

I have an aluminium shipping container that was put in the front yard a good few years ago, wired to power (solar and Lister backed up of course) and this was "lent" to a young chap to do leather work type stuff, whilst he was between jobs, just something to keep his hands busy and make some pocket money to keep going... He moved on a year or two back and the little workshop has been standing pretty much empty as a store room since then...

Here goes the devil finding things to keep me busy...again....

I cleaned the place up, it is not a full 6m unit, the back 2m are partitioned off with a side door to access... This back partition is used as a "reloading room" that I keep all my presses, molding, sizing and priming kit in... too many toys so little time...but, I digress as usual...

Right, back on track, the front 4m or so, with access from the double doors, I have converted into a small, small, tiny little electronics workshop. All that was needed was to bring the component drawers in, the scopes, the analyzers, the multi meters, the measuring kit, the solder stations, the..... and the list goes on... Needless to say, its 4 weeks later, I am still finding test and measuring equipment all over the place, the little electronics workshop is full, and, at the very least, I am not getting tea, beer and coffee spilt into my coveted gizmos that I am making or using to break fix things with...

Initially, I was planning on turning this little place into a "hobby room" - a place to do some of my R/C heli modelling and construction, or, at the very least a place I could set up my model of the "HMS Victory" I am busy building (busy is a very "loose" word, I've been at it for about 20 years, the main hull and decks are done, masts, rigging and sails left to do)... Needless to say, HMS V and my 2x.30 Hirobo Shuttles are not really anywhere near the "hobby room" due to lack of space... Stuffit... I think I must just take over the whole damn house and kick all the residents into the workshop tents.....

On the bright side, its good fun to have an electronics workshop again, I never realised how much I missed having one previously! Wonderful to get the shitz with a project and be able to walk away, to come back 3 days later and carry on without having to unpack stuff from storage or try to find stuff that was "tidied up"!!

Already had a chance to fix up a few 2 way radios that were a bit worse for wear as well as many, many small things that I have "put one side" until I could find time...

Quite honestly, now I am running out of excuses and reasons for not finishing off TM1's rebuild...

Oh wait...there's that .308 and the .243 that I got the other day... Need to go test them first before I get all diesel-oily.....

Another day, another reason, another excuse....

Keep it spinning....

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #922 on: May 02, 2019, 11:39:46 AM »
Hey Ladies, Gentlemen and Glort....

Happy Easter to Y'all!!!!!

Got back from a visit to family a few days ago, spent a week in a neighboring city - What a difference!!

Saw sisters, mother, nieces and mates! Was good to visit my old home town for a change, its been long overdue... Dunno why anybody was happy to see me, me being the obnoxious, ill mannered, ill tempered lout that I am... But had I a genuinely great time, everybody else at least "said" that they were glad to see me, some were so genuine that I almost believed them...  ;)

Whilst I was there, I visited the local porn tool retailers, I was totally amazed at the lack of quality of medium duty workshop kit that was on sale... I wouldn't pay a quarter of the marked price for that junk...

Totally discouraged I set off back to the mother's abode (where I was staying) and threw a chainsaw around the place for a while, after a quick repair of course... Felt much better after taking out my frustrations (Heavy rain caused a Coral Tree to shed some 18" x 10 yard boughs.) ... The best woodworking implement I have ever used - Stihl038...

Whilst I was there, I started stripping my "offsite" milling machine which was stored in their garage... Took a few days to unlimber everything from the base, its been in storage for nigh on 10 - 15yrs now, so I figured it was time to hook it homewards and start playing with it... About 3000+kg later, we had the base and bed on a trailer, with the slide/swivel/head carefully packed into the VW Microbus... All done with hand chain block and the like, no gantry or fancy stuff was available - the most high tech bit we used was a 2t chain block, second to that a few pipes as rollers and third to that a crowbar or two... Who said that a Lister was a basic machine....?

After a four hour drive a couple of days later, we unloaded it at its home premises here in EL... What a pleasure to use the overhead gantry and hydraulic engine hoist!! (The unit is a Kondia 70 series Powermill, similar to a Bridgeport, possibly a bit sturdier.)

With around about 500mm or so table clearance, this unit has a wee bit more gap than my old Elliot, but, the Elliot can take way heavier work.... But....They each have their place!

Also brought back a dividing head... The damn thing weighs in at around 50kg, I guess, almost busted my spleen/spine/liver and rectum lifting it out of the car... (the engine hoist was occupied at the time)... I paid for the workout a bit later, for about 72hrs in fact... The brain's definitely writing cheques the body is having trouble cashing....

But, enough of that...Glort, when you coming to visit SA? I need another grumpy old fart to commiserate with... I think that between the two of us, we could put up and host quite a few entertaining evenings... I don't know if anybody else would enjoy it besides us though.... Certainly would be interesting...

Enough rambling...Time to go pack away the tools from the last few night's assembling...

Keep it grumbling...

Cheers
Ed

As usual, the mandatory crappy quality cell images follow...
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #923 on: May 02, 2019, 03:35:18 PM »
Hey Ladies, Gentlemen and Glort....
Quote

Hey! What are you saying Ed?
I'll have you know I'm many things but I am not one of those gay LBGTXWOPNKZQ types.  I am a bloke, have always been a bloke and Fully intend to remain a bloke. None of this one thing today and something else tomorrow BS either!

But, enough of that...Glort, when you coming to visit SA?

Been a looooong time since I been to SA Ed.  Last time I was just a kid and travelling with my grandparents who used to get around a lot.
I don't remember a lot about it but they tell me South Australia, particularly Adelaide, has changed a lot since I was last there.
   You tell me when you are coming over and I'll meet up with you and then I might pop over to WA while I'm there as I have never been to Western Australia yet and there is a lot to see there that's for sure!  ;D ;D ;D

Maybe Bob can meet up with us too? been trying to get up north to anno..... Visit him for months but things keep getting in the way of that so a trio get together would be great.

Funny, I was only thinking of you the other day being highly conspicuous by your absence here and wondering what you had been up to.
Clearly a lot as usual.  Make sure you keep us up to date and entertained with your  projects more regularly please!

dax021

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #924 on: May 02, 2019, 08:40:12 PM »
Glort, I think Ed meant, "when are you coming to South Africa?"

dieselspanner

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #925 on: May 03, 2019, 08:30:34 AM »
This could all go terribly wrong,

What happens if Glort ends up in Saudi Arabia?

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #926 on: May 03, 2019, 08:34:16 AM »
OMW...Glort...get off that plane...Rebook....ZA ZA ZA ZA ZA ZA ZA ZA...
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #927 on: May 03, 2019, 11:26:38 AM »
Glort, I think Ed meant, "when are you coming to South Africa?"


Ohhh!   ;D

Well he should have said that!  ;D

SA means something else to Aussie's!    We have South Australia, which isn't the most southerly state at all,  Western Australia which is, But the north areas are called Northern Territory and Queensland.  Of course just to confuse things the eastern state is called New south wales.
Almost as bad as the Americans with their arse bout way of writing the date you you never know if it's the 7th of feb or the 2nd of July.

I did get what he meant but just having some fun.  :D

I'm not a big traveller I'm afraid. Sometimes I look at places and think I'd like to go there but then reality sets in.
Airports shit me to tears.  You have to get up at the crack of sparrow's to get there but they never run on time and can be kept hanging round for hours. They never message you there is a delay, Don't rush, plane is 2 hours late, they keep you hanging round the damn airport.  I hate lining up like cattle and going through customs is always a shipfight. Take everything off, put everything in trays and then I always get pulled aside and have to go through special scanners and have people feel me up and one day I just know with my luck, I'm going to be taken into a room and hear the terrifying snap of a Rubber glove and asked to bend over and touch my toes!!

It amazes me the do gooders complain about things like Live sheep and Cattle exports but then seats on aircraft are every bit as bad and worse.
They are not only uncomfortable, they are dangerously Confining.
I try to get the extended leg room seats but there are only a few on any plane and they book up quick and I have asked to sit in business class seats and got turned down then some other short fker was graciously offered the same seat.
I sit in the aisle and every damn time the gay arse steward walks past with the trolley they nearly take my shoulder off with it and it's no use trying to stick my legs out the aisle because there is always someone wanting to get past.  Often I cannot sit upright enough so my knees aren't hard pressed up against the seat in front and I can't get them under the seat either.
I'm dying to get out the dam thing before we even rotate off the tarmac.

I love flying light aircraft, they are a fraction of the size and have loads more room.
And the windows open so I can take better pics.  ;D

I am NEVER as uncomfortable and feel as claustrophobic as I do on a Damn plane in a normal ridiculously undersized seat.
My arse might be fat but I can't do anything about the width of my shoulders because there is no excess flubber there nor on my leg length.
Then you get to the other airport, have to fring around with Hire cars or Shuttles and by the time you get even to NZ from oz which is a 3.5 Hour Flight,
It's 12 hours from the time you left the prison Cell hotel at the airport till the time you get into the hotel where you are going.

Clearly Grumble butts like me should never be allowed to Fly in the first place!
If I was going to South AUSTRALIA, I'd Drive.  15 Hours which is long but certainly do able in a day and easier than flying.

glort

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #928 on: May 03, 2019, 11:31:20 AM »

What happens if Glort ends up in Saudi Arabia?


I'd probably be arrested and then shot.

I hear that's a pretty strict place, not somewhere I think I should go. My cousin live there and has been at me for ages to come visit.
I tell her i'm not that big on the beach as it is, why would I want to go to a whole country that's nothing but sand?

I would like to go to the Burj and stay there, Cousin has spent so much time and had so many unbelievable meals there on the company expense account shes' sick of it.
Lucky her!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #929 on: May 09, 2019, 01:29:24 PM »
Hey fellow cretins....

Something somewhat Lister related for a change....

I have been thinking of adding an additional water heat exchanger to the exhaust of the Lister/Burner, something that must be easily "cleanable" as well as offering minimal obstruction to allow as free a flow as possible, particularly as the last usable section of "silencer/stack" is convection operated for the burner, as opposed to forced exhaust when it is used in Lister-mode...

It doesn't have to be particularly efficient in Lister-mode, the exchanger is more for catching the tail end of the flames from the burner... I have noticed, in burner mode, that I can wind up the wick and get about 5ft of 4" piping to a nice cherry red, this is after the main heatex for the burner... Now I can wind it up and put all this fun to use....

Fun, Fun, Fun.....

Keep it heating.....

Cheers
Ed

12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!