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Author Topic: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications  (Read 289617 times)

mikenash

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #465 on: December 06, 2016, 04:56:16 PM »
  I agree a drip oiler would be the best solution, but them 'lil fellers is a gitting 'spensive! 

Every single time I see those things for sale I am amazed at the price. Wether on ebay or on a table at an engine show, I look and wonder what the heck is so marvellous or complicated about these things to justify the price??
Then again, I also wonder how the hell an open crank engine can work with just a couple of things things on them wizzing round and not even a closed splash lube sump or oiling system.

Y'know in the motorcycle world there are little chain-oiler reservoir and feed systems "scottoilers" they are here.  Just a reservoir and a capillary tube to take vacuum from your intake so it turns on when the engine turns on etc and an oil flow adjuster. You can set them for a drip an hour or whatever I guess.  Not "period" in any way but no moving parts either.  Cheers


Like crows collecting shiny objects engine men and especially engine dealers gather up drip oilers and pile them in the nest. If things were made square, meaning all needs were met and that was that  there would be a huge pile of them worth only their weight in scrap brass and glass. BUT at any engine show there are tables full of them at high prices few are willing to pay so they all go home in a box only to be hauled out to the next one. I wont pay the going rate and instead buy new ones from McMaster Carr. They are not period correct but I don't care. I am not going to add to the stupidity.

George A

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #466 on: December 06, 2016, 05:34:03 PM »
Check the suppliers on this website: http://www.old-engine.com/index.php

You'll find several vendors offering drip (gravity) oilers at reasonable prices, along with British threaded pipe fittings, etc. I've often thought it wouldn't be too difficult to add a single oiler for the rocker arms, using a tube feed of some sort. Would look kind of "grand" too........
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

dieselspanner

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #467 on: December 06, 2016, 09:47:58 PM »
Just looked up pipe cleaners on Ebay, I thought they'd be a thing of the past, like skate boards, I can't believe the amount of different colours (USA readers delete the u as required)

And they're bloody cheap!

Cheers
Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

vdubnut62

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #468 on: December 07, 2016, 05:23:58 AM »
EdDee, please feel free to "wick away" if that is the way that your imagination leads you. :D
Ron.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous

mikenash

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #469 on: December 07, 2016, 05:28:11 AM »
Yeah, Glort, I will never smell Castrol "R" without remembering going to the Meanee Speedway near Napier as a kid in the late '60s and early '70s and sitting on the corners to enjoy getting showered in clay etc etc.  Legends like world champs like Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger were just folks who raced there on a Saturday night to my twelve-year-old self

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #470 on: December 08, 2016, 08:44:49 AM »
Hey Guys,

A small update....

Managed to get the genhead and 3-phase mounted on the sub-frame yesterday, lots of sweat in around 40C weather... Blew the plasma cutter to kingdom come, burnt out an angle grinder, dropped the genhead on my foot, all in all an interesting day!! (Oh yes also tangled up with my hand drill and a 13mm bit went south while slotting the slides for the 3 phase... All in the spirit of fun as they say...)

I still have to do the final placement and welding of the sub to main chassis once all distances and clearances are worked out, but so far it is looking promising, albeit a tad cramped. The genhead is driven directly off the flywheel rim, 600mm dia, the driven pulley will be either 225mm or 250mm diameter (haven't decided yet), so I have allowed just enough clearance for the 250mm to go into place. I am planning on using only a single 13mm belt to drive it at this stage, as there will be only around 3kw max draw on the alt.... A bit small, but with the large diameters I am working with, it should suffice. Should there be a problem, I can fit a double sheave pulley on the alt and away we go... I have also put "extra Long" adjustment track slots for the gen's, this allows a fair range of pulley and belt sizes to be played with in the future, should it be required.

Currently, I am designing on the fly in "compact mode", with minimum belt lengths, maximum pulley diameters - this means that when it all fits and turns, it will be worst case scenario for clearances.

For genhead to 3 phase, I am attempting to use a double sheave setup with pulleys 130/120mm respectively, if it all pans out, I will not have to adjust governor speeds when I go from prime to net meter mode... The ratio is around 10% up on 1500rpm (ie 150rpm) doing it this way, a little high, but I can deepen the grooves on the 130mm if I need to to bring it closer to the 60rpm overspeed for the 3phase to operate in net mode....

Pics here under today's date:  http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/TM2 General Assy and Mods (Towards the end of the list)

Hopefully, today, I will be able to fit the sub frame to main and get that all finalized.....

I am considering running on a non-radiator setup, pump circulated with a 200L tank - certainly in the beginning - I am also considering using a common hot water/coolant reservoir that is pump circulated - As opposed to a closed coolant system with glycol....Anybody else doing similar? (With of course the mandatory exhaust heatex in tow...)

Keep it spinning....

Cheers
Ed
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 08:49:55 AM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #471 on: December 09, 2016, 08:28:40 AM »
Hey Glort,

This 3P setup will be for grid tie in, not independent operation. I foresee that I might tie in a phase on the 3 phase to the alternator to do independent stuff... The alt will do the frequency and basic V regulation and the 3 phase would be in an "assisting" role, hence the 10% up on the speed of the 3P vs the Alt... If I find it too much and there is a bit of breakdown of the flux(Too much mag slip) in the 3p I can just drop the revs a bit by machining the drive pulley down a bit (the one on the alt shaft)...

I have played a bit with induction gens, they are sometimes always "tricky" to set up where voltage surge due to variable loads occur, but much easier in the role of tied in rather than stand alone. Stand alone requires a much more touchy setup of L-C network vs load vs revs to get things working, change but a small amount and things get interesting indeed.... I must confess though, I have not "hard belted" an alt to a 3P in a fixed ratio environment before, and am keen to see if they can be made to work in harmony... I don't see why not... This could end up being an easy (and cheap) way to boost say a 5kva to a 10kva unit by adding an induction generator into the mix....

10% up is around the max you could drive an induction generator in assisting mode if I remember correctly, the performance is already starting to fall off at this point, the actual real efficiency is around 4 or 5% up for coupling... To determine it by looking at the motor plate, look at the rated revs for the power. ie 1440rpm in this case - this is then a 2 pole set motor @ 50hz - the 60rpm deficiency is the "slip" required on the rotor to give rated power at shaft - if you work it out, this is a 100-(1440/1500x100)%=4% slip to induce current in the rotor to give grunt at the shaft... To get the same amount of current(or near enough) boost back into a tie in system, you would have to drive the shaft at 4% above 1500RPM ie 1560... But enough said, lets try it and see! What I am actually hoping to achieve, is less electrical load on the gen head as part of the trial... If it doesn't work to my liking, no biggie, I will just run them independently...(or the 3 phase not at all, 4 bolts and a belt and it disappears back into storage!!)

As an aside, have you ever run a 3P motor as a rotary phase converter from 1P mains? I have a couple set up to use where 3 phase polishing machines (crappy bench grinder with buffing wheels) were needed... start the "rotary transformer" with a cap, once spinning, hook up the 3P grinder to the 3 phases on the "converter", and away it goes.... Much cheaper and more reliable than the inverter controllers (if you don't need speed control)... Plus, 3P industrial motors are a dime-a-dozen at the scrappies.... Singles are in way more demand and difficult to get, when you do, you bleed money to cover them... Just bear in mind, you are only getting about 1/3 the rated 3phase power out of the converter this way - so a 15kw 3phase will only give you around 5kw 3phase out to power another device (approximately)...oh, and BTW, you need 220V 3phase motors to make it work with reasonable power output...

Yesterday evening I did the line up of all the pulleys and sub frame for the genhead on TM2 - I gotta work a lot more carefully now that the plasma is down.... no more quick tack, oops, cut move tack... Tack and weld once all lined up only!! I have managed to get the whole shebang together, allowing for dual ratios on the engine/alt coupling, with only the change of the alt pulley - there is enough tension adjustment that I don't have to change belts even - Bonus!! The clearance between the 3P pulley/shaft and the crankshaft necessitated a bit of surgery with an angle grinder, but one stubby 3P motor shaft later, and the conversion from 2 to 1 sheave on the 3P pulley, and all is good to go with enough clearance....Just!! The drive train belt layout is almost an inverted "V" with the crankshaft and 3P at the bottom, almost in line with one another and the genhead shaft above them in the center... Looks quite cute!! I looks like I will be able to drive the water pump from the second sheave (now unused) of the pulley that is on the genhead shaft... an added bonus of the current layout.

Right... Enough rambling....

Keep it spinning

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #472 on: December 09, 2016, 03:36:13 PM »
Hi Glort,

Ostensibly I am going to look mainly at tie in, with a little combined small 3phase output on it just in case I need it....

I am currently looking for some old style "twirly meters" to stick on the outputs, will be much easier to visually monitor things if I need to, and they are pretty robust to boot... As to the C2C, I probably will do a little balancing, but not much, mostly to stop it growling if needs be....

Pioneer....defs not...Broke, with lotsa stuff lying around to play with...Yes!! (I love it when the mates come round with a truckload of junk from a garage cleanout...especially the big eyes when they see what I do with the stuff, a real hoot!!)

Been playing with the Genhead this arvie...got most of the kinks worked out, rebuilt the rectifier board and got the starter windings online too, I am really happy about that!! Under several layers of paint, near the mount, I bumped into the label - Its a Stamford D8 series, quite a nice one as well... I also spun the one outlet duct around, now its in true clockwise config, just doing that improves the airflow by, at a guess, at least 10 to 15%... It looks like the local gennie "doctors" have had a go at changing the direction of starting at some point... the assholes tried by swopping the +/- lines in the box, not swopping over the polarity at the brushes... Obviously the eejuts have no clue as to the difference between a series/parallell wound motor and a permanent magnet motor..... Their loss, my gain... I think this unit was scrapped because it "couldn't be reversed" for starting when they tried it....

Right, the weekend is here!!

Beer o' clock chiming in the background!!

Keep it spinning....

Cheers
Ed



12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #473 on: December 12, 2016, 09:01:03 AM »
Hey Guys,

First Smoke!! Bring out the cigars and snifters of cognac!!

Started TM2 up this weekend, a few short runs while I was sorting out the alternator connections.... Looks like one of our local profs defs had his hands in there!!... Eventually, I gutted all the internal add-ons and started rewiring the connections myself, without trying to find what was incorrect... I should have done it right from the start! (4 to 5 hours worth of trying to trace multi coloured wires, yep, snip black and orange, swop them over, snip orange and black, change them with red and blue....and that was just one of around 3 or 5 sets of mixups!!.....Enough!!)

Got the beast spinning at pretty close to 1500rpm, 245V while pushing around 1.5Kw resistive. I can pull the voltage down a bit, but I am not keen to, the line to the house is quite long and I reckon we are probably dropping up to about 10V over the stretch while at full load. The electric start has good torque and easily winds up TM2 to start revs within about 3 t 5 seconds, double flywheels and all, and, bonus, this it does on only 12vdc, so no need to put dual batteries on the starter side of things. (The charge/start circuit runs at 24vdc on this unit.) I will install a 12V motor style voltage regulator though, on the charge circuit, as I reckon 30Vdc might just turn my tractor battery into a football, even in the short term!!

There is a small water leak on the bottom of the jacket/cc joint, a small drip under the diesel tank, a small seep on the bottom of the oil pump, and thats about it - nothing really unexpected in that line from our Injun friends... The only PITA is having to lift the cylinder and spray in some sealer... I might just throw in a little powder and see how it works out. The other 2 drips are easy to sort out as he stands.

Shake, rock and roll, are minimum at everything up to the half load I have been testing at so far - There is a little shuffle, but this is to be expected as he is only standing on some wooden blocks at the moment. I have a wooden block under each corner "foot" of the chassis under the engine, and a single wooden block under the far end center where the 200L water reservoir is going to be supported. Currently all testes (yep, testes!) have been conducted with the generator cradle only tacked into place (8 small tacks holding that genhead and 3Ph motor assy in place with the overhead gantry hooked up as a bit of a safety measure).... Hence "testes", as balls have got to be bigger than brains to do it this way...Lol!

Once I have got the water pump onto the sub-frame and lined/hooked up, I can strip the whole mess down and look at welding and painting it up!!

I have an old CO2 cylinder lying around - I am considering integrating it into the chassis as a silencer, or even as a large water jacket/reservoir for hot water... Lets see what pans out!

Keep it thumping!!

Cheers
Ed

Edit: Anybody else done an "Inline" setup with a Lister CS/Alternator setup that you know of?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 09:08:06 AM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #474 on: December 12, 2016, 10:11:43 AM »
Damn Glort!!

You reckon the 15 extra Barrels and Pistons I have, that I was going to turn TM1 into a radial are not gonna cut it..... Oh well, at least I can stay with the Nitro, Supercharger, Turbos and hot plate!! (Now I am going to have to get rid of the 200Kw alternator I had lined up as well... :-[  )

Lol
E

Edit: The genhead I have fitted is a Stamford ES11/1500RPM/Ser#R60973-1/6KvA/1Phase/220v/27.3A/24VDC@3A 2 wire unit.... Although I have kludged my way through its setup and wiring, do any of you gents have a basic internal schematic/layout/manual on PDF perhaps? (It looks very similar to the D8 / D11 series, closer to the D8 in fact, but there are some internal differences by the looks of it...Especially after I rewired it to get it up and running!!)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 11:34:23 AM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

broncodriver99

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #475 on: December 12, 2016, 03:52:33 PM »
Edit: The genhead I have fitted is a Stamford ES11/1500RPM/Ser#R60973-1/6KvA/1Phase/220v/27.3A/24VDC@3A 2 wire unit.... Although I have kludged my way through its setup and wiring, do any of you gents have a basic internal schematic/layout/manual on PDF perhaps? (It looks very similar to the D8 / D11 series, closer to the D8 in fact, but there are some internal differences by the looks of it...Especially after I rewired it to get it up and running!!)

Ed. I have a Stamford ES8 4kw head. I sent Cummins(who now owns Stamford) an email with my model and serial and they were able to dig up an owners manual and electrical schematics. It took a day or two but they are really good about getting back to you. They can even give you the build date.

Here is their contact info. https://stamford-avk.com/contact

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #476 on: December 13, 2016, 08:22:03 AM »
Hey BD!

I have buzzed off an email to them, hopefully they will respond! (I need a front bearing, hopefully the specs give sizes so that I can get one before I strip it down!!)

Many thanks
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #477 on: December 14, 2016, 08:52:57 AM »
Hey Guys,

A minor update....

Yesterday was "Chassis Strip" day, I pulled TM2 off the chassis along with all of the turny bits, leaving just the bare chassis with all the nice shin-level sticky-outy-bits that were only tack welded in place. After finding several sharp corners using my shins as environment sensors, and several gantry assisted gyrations of the chassis later, everything has been welded fully into place, including 3x S/Steel "feet" to raise his carcass about an inch off the floor....(S/Steel Round bar 40mm diameter x 25mm long.)

Next step is to attend to the few niggly little seeps and drips while he is fully accessible....A right PITA but something that is needed to be done!! Incidentally, I remember when stripping and cleaning both TM1 and TM2, the pump - There were no springs in the ball non return valves on either inlet or outlet - Is this an Indian budget cut maybe? I will probably install a pair while I am at it, just wondering if anybody else on the forum has had similar? (The original design spec had a spring on the outlet valve if I remember correctly...)

Keep it pumping!!

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

dieselspanner

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #478 on: December 14, 2016, 09:34:47 AM »
Hi Ed

Don't know about the cost cutting exercise, but my original Lister has springs in the ball valves, who put them there I've no idea!

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #479 on: December 14, 2016, 04:30:11 PM »
Thanks Stef,

I am planning to install a couple when I tear the pump down to sort out a minor drip in the next day or so....Didn't get much of a chance to play with it today, was too busy drooling over a new toy that arrived, a 73year old, single cylinder, disposable piston type thingy!!....(But my housemate did bring a few lengths of pipe to jacket the exhaust for the heat exchanger!)

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!