The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications

[EdDee]

Hey Guys,

Agreed pretty much on all counts.... The reason for all the "filings and crap" - Mass production!! Gone are the days of hand fitting all the components and file fitting to minimum spec - It takes just too much time. Slap it together, allow for wear in with a bit of looseness or tightness where you can, start it up and pray the filters and settling areas do their jobs!!

Considering the amount of time I have spent on TM2 now, had this been done by the supplier, excluding the mods of course, I would expect to pay in the region of 2x what I have... Unfortunately, the world we live in now, is price driven... Pay as little as possible to get as much as possible (as the saying goes: Low price, High Quality, Choose one!)... With the low loading specs of these engines, the makers can get away with murder and still have a reasonably serviceable unit.... But enough of that can of worms....

This weekend I managed to finish the IP mods, I put in a rack limiter with an integral return spring. The limit can be adjusted to allow for maximum power output. The return spring has two uses - First, it takes out all of the "slop" in the linkages, this gives better governor control. Second, the spring is only just strong enough to overcome gravity iro the weight of the linkages themselves... Should a pin or linkage detach, the rack will pull closed automatically, no overspeed, just shutdown... I also moved the adjuster and made an adjustable end attached to the crankcase, to test different springs is now dead easy.... Alongside of the pump, I cut up the banjo fitting and silver soldered an integral t-piece, this allows for dual fuel setup right at the IP itself, little to no delay in switching fuels now....(Of course there will be a delay, but only a few seconds as it does not need to purge long feed pipes now..)... This was not so much a mod as a repair - The barb fitting where it was crimped into the SS braided hose had a crack/hole in it - the bore of the barb was not concentric - it was out by about 2mm and was of tinfoil thickness down one side....

Aaah yes.... The workshop cat (Kitten) is now officially on site and in training.... Only to be scooped up and abducted by the kids and promptly moved indoors....

I have also started doing the "Auto Oil Fill" mods... The fitting has been set into the small CC cover in place of the dipstick. Unfortunately, it will obscure the governor adjuster a little, but I think I will get away with it.... The pics show a piece of 1/2" copper line in place, this is for reference only, it will be steel line on the actual version. Pics here:  http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/TM2 General Assy and Mods (Towards the end of the list, under yesterday's date.)

Also managed to scare the sh!t out of the laddie that was fixing his car here on the weekend.... I picked up TM2 on the 400kg gantry... With full flywheel compliment... The gantry only creaked a bit and settled about 3" or so.... He took one look and reckoned it was far better to be outside the workshop at that point... 800Kg is a bit much....

Keep on scaring...

Cheers
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Guys,

Here's an interesting one... Just in Passing... Ordered some 10mm IP pump elements from India on the 15th September... Just been collected from the post office, snail mail... Around 10weeks in postage, Cost of USD45 for 10 elements... ET10L 1/4... Total incoming cost including customs and SWIFT charges levied by our local thieves... USD92... Remember, this was for 10x elements... Now.... Include about 5hrs of correspondence and pissing about.... About break even I reckon... LOL....

I did try and find 11 or 12mm elements, but no luck to fit the 034 pump.... Bugger!

Right, I gonna make my gerbil sum oiler...

Laters...

Cheers
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Guys,

Gerbils-R-Us Auto-oil-filler-upper is now installed... I cadged it together out of what I had laying around.... Looks like it will work.... The "stop cock" has been modded internally - the rubber seal has been removed, nylon in place - the loose end for the seal has been silver soldered to the spindle and trued up on the lathe, now it doesn't act as a one way valve when the cock is open. The CC fitting has been bored through, the steel pipe goes through it to the bottom of the splash sump - It now needs to be filled with oil and trimmed off to set the oil level for running. The top plug on the tank has an integral dipstick for checking tank level, and this plug now uses an o-ring instead of a taper to make life easier. The top "legs" of the tank are flexible enough to allow for a small (3/4") height adjustment, the final height, once adjusted, is locked into place by the "conex" water fitting on the sump door, which uses a ferrule seal. The legs bolt onto the bottom inlet and exhaust studs. Interestingly, the use of a brass ferrule on a steel pipe(where it enters the crankcase), gives enough clamping to lock the pipe from sliding very effectively, yet, when loosened, allows the steel pipe to slide through once again.....And...yes... It does clear the governor linkages!

Pics here: http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/TM2 General Assy and Mods (Towards the end of the list) Under today's date.... Comments welcomed! (Except remarks on the crappy quality of the images....my "new" cell phone aint as good in the camera department as the old one...And that was pretty sh!te to begin with!!)

Keep it oiled...

Cheers
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Girls....

I have just finished torquing down the head and checking squish.... FWIW, IP side of the cylinder being oriented South, the four readings were 1.93/1.89/1.92/1.85 mm respectively as per NEWS order... The deck/crank might be a tiny bit out - .08mm or .oh-oh-pi in inches, not too serious I don't think (I didn't check the crown to gudgeon dimensions when I had it apart either)....

The Gerbil-Fillit-Thing is stuck in and bolted up, the bottom of the tube being cut off at 45 degrees to match the dipper trough... It is slowly filling to set depth (about 1/2 way up the dipper) as I type.... I expect the tube to still pick up a bit of air and splash from the dipper, so the oil level should rise a bit when it is running... As to how much, I couldn't tell you, but I have made it fairly adjustable and I will keep an eye on it when TM2 finally pops smoke! (The "real" dipstick is in place on the drain side of the engine, soon to be calibrated too!)

Pics here under today's date:  http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/TM2 General Assy and Mods (Towards the end of the list)

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed

PS: the dark "cloudiness" in the oil in the center of the sump is shadow, not dirt!!

PPS: Now here's a quick question for you learned gents out there that have a sump/apron style roid... Which do you prefer IRO oil level, the weir notch bottom with the pump keeping the sump supplied, or filling the apron to above the weir notch?

[veggie]

EdDee,

I have a question about the top end lubrication.
You obviously do some lengthy runs lasting for hours at a time.
What is your procedure for keeping the rocker shaft and valve guides lubricated.?
In my case, I removed the stock rocker shaft and added the type that has a grease cap which pushes grease into the shaft assembly with each turn of the cap. It offers a bit better system than the stock arrangement, but not much better. That system does nothing for the valve guides, so I still have to oil the recess at the bottom of the valve spring.
I have seen that some people pack a handful of grease around the components. I suspect this works excellent, but I cant bare to pack  a 1/2 pound of grease onto the top of my engine.
Some have even fabricated an upper valve train lube system which takes oil from the sump. An interesting idea.
I am wondering how the top end can be modified so that the valve system does not have to be constantly watched during long runs.
In the "old days" of cotton mills in the UK,  a young boy (apprentice) was employed to walk around all the machinery carrying an oil can and a pail of grease. His job was to keep all rotating parts nicely lubed in oils.

cheers,
Veggie

[EdDee]

Hey V-Man!!

I simply lube once a day at startup... TM1 is in a less than favorable environment and I am worried about grease catching a little too much sand and dust... That being said, even oil dampness attracts dust as we all know.

In all the time I have been playing with old thumpers, I have only twice had a problem with seizing on the rocker shaft... I cant remember the circumstances of the first time, but on TM1 I had the inlet rocker bind up for no rhyme or reason... Removed, cleaned up the shaft and bushing, reinstalled and all has been well with it for the last 14 months or so... I suspect there was a bit of sh!t in the bushing from the day it was made...

I regularly run up to 14hr shifts (if I have enough waste oil) and find that little of no attention needs to be paid to the rockers barring a quick squirt every 12hrs or so....

The rest of the time, for short runs, I quick squirt on startup is about as far as I go....

I am tempted to install a drip oiler, but haven't found one at the right price yet (ie free)!!

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Guys,

Just did the dual-fuel fittings on the IP... Next to plumb in the injector return line... I am using some old HPA fittings I had lying around, seems to work quite well so far, no gaskets or o-rings needed and they seal up well....

Pics here under today's date:  http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/TM2 General Assy and Mods (Towards the end of the list)

Cheers
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Guys,

This weekend I made time to glue together a chassis for TM2... Overall footprint is about 1mx2m - Taper channel 160mm wide.... Should be heavy enough to hold him down. Luckily there was enough scrap lying around to re purpose, otherwise this would have cost a bundle... Used 3.2mm hi temperature glue sticks.... Lol

Pics here:  http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/TM2 General Assy and Mods (Towards the end of the list under today's date)

TM2 is mounted in his correct orientation and position as he now stands. The alternator will be in line with him, but the shaft of the alternator will be above the outboard flywheel and belt driven off the rim. The 3 phase motor in the picture will be below the alternator and driven from it for net metering duties if it works out as planned. At the far end of the frame, in the excess space, I am considering installing a 220L heat store tank. Somewhere in among all of this, I am looking at a belt driven circulation pump and compressor as well....(not to forget a 12v start system as well...) ...  Tetris a' la Lister in progress!!

Comments welcome!!

Keep it spinning....

Cheers
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Glort,

It looks like the "small space" is gonna be just too small.... Bummer.... I am going to be able to fit it, but servicing will be a problem. My initial plan was to put the whole lot on "rails" so it could be slid in and out under winch power to do the pm's and repairs, but unfortunately, due to a small built up retaining wall with a drain sump built in that projects slightly into the mouth of the doorway, access looks like, at this stage, it will be a problem. The overall package size fits the "room" but to install it, I would have to put it in in pieces and assemble it in situ... I have found another nook, little used, that TM2 can fit into... Right next to TM1! I am considering combining the exhaust stacks and power/water/everything is close by as well, so less to do to get it useful! (Sorry, Mr lazy is kicking in....)

Weight, well, lets just not go there... TM2 on his own is about 750 to 850 kg maybe more... was quite interesting getting him from the initial assembly area to his fabrication area - a grand distance of about 10m, but using the gantries and with the amount of machinery and crap I have in the workshop, I ended up with a journey of about 25m of which about half of it was over my D40 Komatsu bulldozer.... A rough guestimate puts the weight of the bits before the chassis is complete at around 1200kg and still a good few bits to go on (that's not even including radiator/pump and 300L of Hot water storage).... I don't think he will be classed as a "portable" unit.....

It will be interesting to see his final layout, I have not actually built an "inline" Lister before... All the ones done previously have been "transverse"....

The 3 phase is a 50A 380V 1440RPM unit... I should be able to push about 15A/Phase on cogen if I can get it together, assuming it isn't stuffed... I still need to check it out properly though....

One additional small complication for the "small room" environment is the addition of the radiator, which I want to thermo-syphon, but also use the cooling exhaust draft from the alternator...(Hence the high mount of the alternator)

Enough rambling.... Let me finish my coffee and go cut some more channel...

Keep on gluing....

Cheers
Ed

PS - I managed to get some wooden welding rods from the local hardware store the other day... Try as I might, even soaked them in salt water, I just couldn't get an arc....

[vdubnut62]

Just a shot in the dark, but what would a bunch of cotton waste packed into the head/valvetrain area and soaked with oil accomplish? (other than making a mess)
I know a bunch of babbit bearing equipped steam and early gas engines as well as babbit pillow blocks used this method. Just thought I would throw it against the wall and see if it stuck.
  I agree a drip oiler would be the best solution, but them 'lil fellers is a gitting 'spensive!  Just a thought, what about cotton wicks, about 4 of them, crimped into a tube connected to a small reservoir and wicking lube to the rocker shafts and valve guides? That would still leave the pushrods dry, but I don't figure the inverted cup holds a lot of lube anyway.
Ok I am ready to be shot down so fire at will!
Ron.

[EdDee]

Hey Ron,

Cotton waste....Not so sure....Too much exposed surface area to draw lube out of... It would work well in a gland box though...

But now, your other suggestion - Wicking lube to the areas that need it - That I Like!! Perhaps a small resevoir on top of the valve cover,with say four discrete little tubes with wicks in going to the top of each rocker pivot and the top of each valve.... The lube would wick its way down each path to the specific point of need.... Mind if I maybe use your idea?

Keep it oiled....

Cheers
Ed

[dieselspanner]

Hi All

A few years back I did a short trip on a Dutch barge, up the English channel, can't remember what the motor was but it was hot bulb ignition.

The guy running it used pipe cleaners to 'wick' the lube oil to various places, might be worth a thought.

Cheers Stef

[EdDee]

Hey Stef,

Nice one!! Easy and "directable" .... Defs gonna do that!!

Cheerz
Ed

[EdDee]

Hey Guys,

Agreed.... Thinking back, a mate of mine had an oval track speedway bike, no clutch, no gears, open crank with a shroud in front to keep some of the sand out of the engine....Ran on straight methanol with a "total loss" lube system... About 500cc if I remember.... Now to me, that's about the worst you could do to an engine....Anybody remember what make they were? Husquavarna comes to mind, but I dont think it was....

Cheers
Ed

[38ac]

  I agree a drip oiler would be the best solution, but them 'lil fellers is a gitting 'spensive! 

Every single time I see those things for sale I am amazed at the price. Wether on ebay or on a table at an engine show, I look and wonder what the heck is so marvellous or complicated about these things to justify the price??
Then again, I also wonder how the hell an open crank engine can work with just a couple of things things on them wizzing round and not even a closed splash lube sump or oiling system.

Like crows collecting shiny objects engine men and especially engine dealers gather up drip oilers and pile them in the nest. If things were made square, meaning all needs were met and that was that  there would be a huge pile of them worth only their weight in scrap brass and glass. BUT at any engine show there are tables full of them at high prices few are willing to pay so they all go home in a box only to be hauled out to the next one. I wont pay the going rate and instead buy new ones from McMaster Carr. They are not period correct but I don't care. I am not going to add to the stupidity.