Author Topic: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications  (Read 291022 times)

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #525 on: May 02, 2017, 11:29:11 AM »
Hey Glort,

I played around with the burner a bit and got it going quite nicely now.... I am a tad under 60L/hr on 3/4 throttle.... I guess that makes it about 600kw or so?

I installed a shutter on the blower to regulate airflow and a slotted exhaust tube to allow for easy insertion of things into the flame path... This was tested out (of course) with an old pc hard drive.... solid to liquid in about 20 secs or so... (Still peeling solidified Ali off the driveway) .... All in all, I am pretty happy with that... Oh yes - Also increased the outlet from 2" to 4" and changed the fuel inlet pipe to fire straight with the air stream....

I did get a call from the neighbour.... (600m+ away from us... he knows I play with strange stuff and he politely asked if I had got hold of a jet engine... The orange white glow over the property in the evening/dusk and the roar of the exhaust had him convinced there was a Mirage chained down and being run up with an afterburner test!!)

To get a good blast out of it, I eventually relented and just pressuruised the tank (An old refrigerant disposi can) - about 20psi - Less than that and I can run it way lean, more than that and it seems pointless - The fuel delivery nozzle is 6mm diameter and it can really squirt it in when you pull out the stops...

Today if I get a chance, I am going to try and re-purpose a bit of 12" ID ceramic pipe I have lying around and try and make a furnace receiver to test out the contained heating aspect of the beast... Up to now it has all been open flame testing, and while impressive, pretty pointless was a hell of a lot of fun!!

After these containment tests I will try and see how well it smelts things, that should be a blast!!

There are a couple of vids here:  http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/Vapourising Oil Burner 20170421 ... Take a look towards the end of the folder, the latest few are there....

If you listen in the background, you will hear my housemate belting the snot outta a piece of bar.... As soon as I started the burner, he stuck a piece of steel into the flame and ran to find a hammer.... A budding blacksmith I reckon!

Keep on flaming!!

Cheers
Ed
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 11:34:44 AM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #526 on: May 02, 2017, 10:32:26 PM »
Hey Glort...

To measure consumption it has been a bit of a thumb suck.... Fill tank to 13L mark, warm up the beast with some kero, ease on the gunk slowly and keep it clean flaming, measuring the time taken to empty the tank and an average consumption is reached... it runs just under 1/4hr on one tank at fair throttle, not at full steam though, I am still playing around a bit, but bear in mind, the first couple of minutes are fairly slow to start with until the thing starts cooking properly... This eve, while messing around with the output semi contained, we got about 2hrs out of the 13L tank with enough usable heat to smelt the ali debris easily and the burner just ticking over... Containing the heat is a big plus... I couldnt rev it too much more, as the crucible we were using had the bottom brazed on and i didnt want to destroy it. I think it was originally intended for lead casting until JP spotted it and hauled it into the fireplace...

As you probably gather, we built a temp fireplace with some bricks and the ceramic pipe.... The pipe held up quite well, it did crack, but is still in one piece. As to the pipe being an advantage, of this I am not sure, the next few tests will be standard red bricks only to see how they hold up.... Two layers of bricks, yellow hot in the inside, and you can almost hold your hand against the outside... I think that will be good enough for what I need to do... Take a look in the vids of the previous link, there is a brief flash of the pile of mud pies we used to contain things today... I added it to the list this evening...

My main interest with this creature will be brass/bronze and copper casting, maybe a bit of glass casting too if i can get round to it. I love making miniature cannons in brass and gunmetal, but hate to machine 80% of it away in making the barrels, only to stick trunions on afterward... I have cast ornamental cannons before in brass, but had to do it on the sly using the exhaust heat from a kiln when I was in the vitrified department of a grinding wheel manufacturing company... now and then I managed to have a bit of surplus bronze from a bearing casting job, how fortunate, in its molten state, and I always kept a mold or two ready, just in case!

Believe it or not, I think that elbow I am using is off a fire sprinkler system too, a plumber mate brought round a crate of assorted fittings and the 4" stuff is a bit big for my oxy-hydride exploits so they have been relegated to the "alternate use" category... mini crucibles, flame directors, neighbour pacifying missiles etc....

I did a small test on the fuel flow using water and pressurizing at a few different readings... The minimum usable pressure is around 5psi for the small 5mm pipe, most effective at around 15psi, and little to be gained above that... Using a small diameter pipe makes handling so much easier, 1/2"is nice, but a pain in the ass as it is just too stiff to lie relaxed and stay out of the way... Plus, 5mm is much cheaper and above all, I ended up with a 30m roll of it somehow....

Regarding the angle and positioning of the fuel inlet - I played with angles and position a bit and found that with the fuel exit at center of air-stream, about 6 to 8" from the entrance to the combustion chamber, I am getting pretty good results. It seems that if you go closer to the chamber, you get a stream of oil that hits the far side and pools too easily, causing surging. move it further than 8" from the chamber, and you get the oil adhering more to the sides of the inlet pipe, again causing puddling and surging. Stick within 6 to 8" and it breaks up the stream of fuel but doesn't have the sticking to the sides problem either... the inlet pipe is 2" dia and the blower is also of the jumping castle variety.... Maybe I am just lucky, or then again, a bit of playing with fluid dynamics in my earlier years actually taught me some things that I have remembered... Or was it a holiday of water skiing... No matter, its still fluid dynamics after all...

Today I made the ingot mold, tomorrow will probably be some fire tongs, ladles, scrapers or casting hooks... while melting a few more bits into ingots and prepping materials...

Who knows, next week I might even get a chance to crack some oil for my LISTERoid... Cant flame me now guys, its a LISTER related post!!!

So much fun, so little time!

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 08:33:21 AM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #527 on: May 05, 2017, 09:49:29 AM »
Hey Glort...

Here's one for the records....

I installed a 1/4" delivery needle valve on the tank outlet for the burner.... Only to have it blocked up by debris in the oil... So much so that I eventually took it off and went back to a regular old 1/2" brass stop cock.... I am trying to make this thing burn as much of the gunk that I can...

Gives an idea of the (lack of) quality of the oil before filtering... And according to the chap I got the oil from, "This stuff shouldn't even need settling, there is no coolant and it comes straight from the sumps" - Well, that may be so, but it looks like it was kept in an open pan, in the rain, under a tree shedding leaves in autumn!

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #528 on: May 06, 2017, 02:40:08 AM »
Hey Glort,

We had a similar problem with what seemed to be hair being present in filtered waste oil... I initially put it down to the outgoing side of the filter dissolving/breaking up and being caught up in the inlet side on the next pass through... I am not so sure now though, I wonder if it could possibly be one of those anaerobic/hydrocarbon type bacterial growths happening... I have seen it in both wvo and wmo on occasion... Please chip in lads, there are a good few of you out there that have been in the oil and refining business a long while... Your remarks would be valued immensely!

I ran the fire blaster up again today after repacking the bricks round the temp furnace to give 5 sided closure with an open front. 1100+ C was not a problem to reach and this we did in less than about 30 minutes and were able to hold it there quite successfully whilst stocking the crucible under fire. I do think that a closed front would aid the system a hell of a lot and speed things up with the smelting as well... The nett result is that we cast a couple of ingots of (about 5 to 6kg) copper that originated from various scrapped plumbing fittings and piping scraps that were taking up space in the scrap bins... I am pleased with the results indeed...

We also managed to make up a few basic tools to help - a pouring handle, a set of fire tongs, a couple of crucibles and pointy scrapy stirry things as well... It was great fun!

I was surprised at how quickly the molten copper became "gooey" after being removed from the furnace... a light breeze on a delta-t of 1070C makes energy disappear fast!

One last test to do today, melting brass and keeping the temp in the right region, not too high, to stop the Zn from fizzling off.... I have successfully burnt off the zinc a few times now while playing with the loud pedal... Fortunately we have a good 50kg or so of brass 9mm/.38 shell casings to play with before we start playing with the good stuff...

Once we have got the easy stuff out the way, I am going to concentrate on the cracker... That will be plenty of fun, it seems the bigger and hotter you go, the easier it gets... The challenge is going to be keeping the heat down for the oil stilling and fracturing I think.... Can't  wait!

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #529 on: May 10, 2017, 01:23:21 PM »
Hey Guys,

This post is more of a test (for myself) to see if I can upload a basic thumbnail into my post....

Some pics of ingots cast using the "cracking burner" I have made while we were testing heat output and the like...

Keep it spinning....

Cheers
Ed

Yep... I screwed it up... Gonna test again, sorry to bore all of you!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:25:38 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #530 on: May 10, 2017, 01:27:44 PM »
Test#2....

Amazing how it helps when you actually read the screen....

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

Tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Green power is good.
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #531 on: May 11, 2017, 09:14:46 PM »
So is that a gold bar there next to the silver one?
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #532 on: May 12, 2017, 09:13:15 AM »
Hey Tom,

I so wish it was..... Brass and Ali.... Almost as much in demand in this area (By local miscreants).... You need as much security to prevent it from wandering off!

Regds
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #533 on: May 12, 2017, 04:40:17 PM »
 :police:

Unfortunately...... I am representative of "a minority race" in the community..... Kinda like living on the "Endangered Species" list....

 :police:
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

dieselspanner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 726
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #534 on: May 12, 2017, 05:36:30 PM »
That'll be the affirmative action in action then!

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #535 on: May 15, 2017, 10:28:35 AM »
Hi all currently disadvantaged and previously advantaged readers!

Here are a couple of pics of some pulleys and guide rollers I cast and machined up this weekend...

Nothing much to do with listers, I am afraid, just a general bit of info for those interested... The hand lock wheels and thin/wide rollers were cast in old bevvie cans, casting in an 8mm bolt where required. The larger rollers, approx130mm dia were cast in old coffee tins, stripped off and then machined. The ali wasn't degassed before the pour, so there are a few minor pinholes in the casting, no problem for pulleys as such. There were little, if any voids in the casting that were noticed during machining... All in all, a successful couple of days playing around with a "Glortburner" and some scrap.

@Glort - Looks like I can wind this thing to just under 1.2MW output - Around 2 L per minute - Scary!!!!

Enough rambling, I gotta go and recycle some recycled ali - The lathe is almost invisible under the ali swarf - Yippee!! More ali to cast with!! only 2 or three more wheels to make!!

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed

12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #536 on: May 15, 2017, 03:38:25 PM »
Hey Glort...

Nope, dont worry.... not a peeing contest...LOL...

Let me know how the swirl drum works, its about the best way I can think of too, to get small "castable marble" bits for topping off the crucible...

I am running about 2" in with 4" out and a somewhat "customized" JC blower... A few additional fins on the blade and reshaped the volute... Removed a bit of clearance here and there and upped the motor size +1 when it burnt out (with the original setup fan etc)  some years ago... I was going to use it on an ejector system for woodchips/sawdust extraction in the woodworking workshop and just havent got round to it...

Fuel oil needs to be 20PSI to feed the thing properly too....

Considerate...... A new word for you to learn!!

Cheers and let me know how the swirl cooling works!!

Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

AdeV

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 660
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #537 on: May 15, 2017, 04:46:18 PM »
What you need is one of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_Shot_Tower

Presuming you don't happen to have a 40 meter tower in your locality, then perhaps a large ladder and a calm day would suffice? A swimming pool would be handy too. And a metal sieve...  ;D
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

EdDee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #538 on: May 16, 2017, 10:09:49 AM »
Hi Ade...

Well, I've got a 35m tower, extendable, surplus from the "Jupiter Project" or something that may do the trick, fitting the spiral staircase might be a problem though.... Was gonna use it for mounting my TH6 beam on to get it above the damn HT power lines that run past the front of my property.... The RF interference from the things swamps the front end of my HF rigs and unless I use a DSP and crank the narrow band filters in, things are crappy.... Oh wait, this is Lister not a Ham forum....Bugger....Got it screwed up again..

On the subject of shot towers though, I have had fair success rolling the molten lead through a diesel oil sloped bottom bath... It cools a bit slower and gives a fair bit of success, but its twitchy, and VERY temperature and flow sensitive... Making frangible rounds from lead powder(Basically spray painting with molten lead to make a powder) is also a lot of fun and a fair success has been attained with the pressing of the lead powder into jackets.... Just a dirty messy job, but fun, nevertheless...Oh wait, this is Lister not a Reloading forum....Bugger....Got it screwed up again..

But back to the subject at hand... Which is nothing to do with Listers either... Last night I employed the band saw and cut up the lump of "Unicorn Poo" into crucible sized chunks and smelted it down to make (hopefully) the last pulley needed (until the next one) for the belt grinder I am making... Now to go and clean the lathe up and take all the swarf to the furnace ready for the next pulley/roller I don't need to make!!

@Glort - Running this fire breathing beast at high output chewed up the exhaust on the burner... Time to make up another combustion chamber.... But it was fun though!! I am still having problems getting an even regulation of fuel into the burner. I am going to go back to a "needle valve" for regulation and up the fuel pressure to about 100PSI. The valve and tank I have will easily go well beyond that, they are rated at 30Bar working - Hopefully any small bitso shitso will extrude through the aperture at that pressure and things will start to smooth out. Of course, I will do rudimentary straining of the fuel in future to prevent stix an rox an catz from being forced through little holez!

Believe it or not, as much as I digress on a post to post basis, a lot of the "playing around" with the various odds and ends is actually Lister related... well except for the shot tower.... and the HF Beam... and the Grinder I am building... and the ... Oh what the hell... Its all fun!! But really though... Once I can get a 100% stable output from the burner, the oil cracker is gonna get a go!!

Keep it oily....

Cheers
Ed

PS: Here's a pic of the "Last" guide roller I cast and machined yesterday eve....

12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

dieselspanner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 726
    • View Profile
Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #539 on: May 16, 2017, 02:22:44 PM »
Ref the last bit of of your post,

I like the diversity of the Chronicles thread, my life rarely stays 'on topic' so why should anything else be restricted?
If there are any truly disinterested members out there they can skip the 'boring bits' personally I even read the long posts!

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.