Author Topic: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications  (Read 289504 times)

carlb23

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #405 on: October 16, 2016, 11:40:13 AM »
Amen, Carl.  Gast 4AM with rubber roller has been doing the job for me for the last 10 years of regular use.  Still on the original roller.

yup my gast 4am has been doing its job since early 2005 and has never failed to start the engine on the first attempt.

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #406 on: October 24, 2016, 05:22:06 PM »
Glort!

Woohoo..... He who owns the water, owns the world!! (To crib sumwun else I believe...)

Interestingly enough.... I have been doing some fine tuning on the WI on TM1.... Found the best balance for me as it currently stands is as follows:

750RPM
1770cc Displacement (Engine is rated 12Hp @ 1000RPM-Estimated output @ 750 is approximately 8Hp used)
4.4Kw Max Load Electrical
2.5Kw Avg Load Electrical
Fuel is Undiluted WMO (ex Petrol Engine and Diesel engine service center)
Water Flow = 2L/90mins ie 1.333L/Hr
Very little crank condensate present from the CC breather.
No oil contamination (emulsification) after 450hrs running - Checked at oil change and daily via dipstick.
Sludge was present, but WAY less than 100ml
Lube oil used - The crappiest, lowest quality, cheap arsed oil I could find of straight 30W(With an occasional top up treat of 20W50 found lying around)
Crank temperature in the region of 60 to 70C after 3hrs running.
Engine coolant operating temp is around 75C to 85C (Measured at water exit from head)
Exhaust heat exchanger is working well still.
Coolant heat exchanger working beautifully.
WI is NOT shutdown when cold/starting.
Started on WMO or diesel, little difference perceived. (Electric started after approx 30-45sec spinning for initial lube circulation.)
Lube Oil consumption has settled down now, after approximately 1100Hrs on WMO as fuel - Since the rebuild, TM has run mostly undiluted WMO.
(Possibly had a gummed up oil control ring straight after rebuild...Hold Thumbs)
On occasion, I mix in up to 20% reclaimed paraffin/turps/thinners(When a batch of oil is problematic and too thick)
I have not de-watered the fuel oil I have run on since the rebuild, it is settled, filtered through a sock filter, put into bunker, settled and then used.
Occasional brief stints on diesel during day runs if there is a major carbon build up (A few mins at a time, with a heavy dose of water to clean.)

(Okay, I know I was a bit verbose.... Just saves a bit of searching time for someone who wants to try do similar to destroy their engine... )

Maybe we can send these specs to BMW......

Keep it spinning

Cheers
Ed

PS - How often do you change your sump oil of your thumpers?
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
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dieselgman

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #407 on: October 24, 2016, 05:39:43 PM »
Very enlightening and thorough description Ed! Much appreciated input here!

Wear and tear details once you get a few thousand hours (or tear-down time again) will also be most welcomed!

dieselgman
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EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #408 on: October 28, 2016, 09:22:25 AM »
Hey Guys,

Just a quick question - Is there anybody else on the forum that is CURRENTLY running either a standard(No Mods to timing/stock standard) or modded(with WI/Injector line heating/Injector Timing changed etc) Lister type engine on a greater percentage of WMO than Dino?

Keen to hear....

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
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EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #409 on: October 28, 2016, 01:50:38 PM »
Hey Guys,

Food for thought, musings and number doodling:

Actual fuel consumption(WMO) based on 4Kl approx fuel used over the last year or so:

Approx .6L/KwH electrical generated at plug.

Add to this a couple of overheads, namely a 50W cooling fan running virtually 100% of the time, the main cooling fan which kicks in about 10 to 20% ie 15% of the time depending load and ambient temperature of about 370W, a circulation pump for heat exchangers rated at around 1.5A, currently drawing about an amp ie 220W.... These are all before the KwH meter.... so a total additional electrical overhead of .64KwH...

Invert the .6L/KwH and we get 1.655KwH/L

Factor the overheads in and we get a total output from gen of around 2.296KwH/L, which equates to .436L/Kwh generated.

At an average SG of .85 for Generic Motor Oil, .436X0.85 = 370g/KwH electrical generated output at genhead.

Now taking the average efficiency of a genhead and belt drive at around 80%(Bit of a thumb suck), that gives about .370 x 80% ie 296g/KwH actual at engine output shaft.

This particular engine was spec'd at around 270g/KwH (if I remember correctly) under ideal load conditions so a 10% increase in consumption for crappy waste fuel, highly variable loads and doing everything you shouldn't do to a poor old engine seems pretty darn good to me.....

Now the happy bit: As it is a "Cogen" type setup, generating usable heat and power - The heat recovery is being used to generate hot water, recovered heat from coolant and exhaust heats up 300L of water from around 20C to 65C in about 2Hrs... That is a total of around 7.7Kw making the recovery around 3.9KwH of "waste heat"...

Well, what does this all boil down to?

If the WMO was purchased in its entirety at ZAR1.00/L (current going rate, bear in mind most of the oil was "donated"):

A total of around 4000L have been consumed, the return on which has seen 5% average sludge/water and filtering loss, leaving around 3800L of fuel oil...

Using 3800L of fuel, currently generating 1.655KwH/L (Average electrical load is around 2.2Kw/Hr) electrical and 3.9KwH heat reclamation, we get a total generation time of 3800*1.655/2.2=2858hrs(Not far off what has been measured)

Heat Generation = 2858Hx3.9KwH=11146KwH
Electrical Generation = 3800Lx1.655Kwh/L=6289KwH
Total Power Generation: 11146+6289 = 17435KwH

Assuming that water heating would come from grid power(cheapest) or Gas boiler(actual), using the cheapest grid method of heating:
Current Cost ZAR1.9172 / KwH
Total Projected Cost for time span calculated if ex grid: 17435*1.9172=ZAR33426(Around 15 months now)
Total Raw Cost of Fuel if not donated: ZAR4000
GP Margin/Saving: Around ZAR29500 (Lots of Smiles)

Now, before you rush out and buy a case of champagne to celebrate:

Costs in round figures ZAR for the last while(15mo)-
Engine: 18000
Genhead: 4000
Belts/Pulleys/Steel/Piping/Fans and Switches: 5000
Filters/oil and Service costs: 2500
Total of:29500(About break-even).....oops, looks like its not so cheap after all!

Scratching the memory banks, the following things peek through:
Probably another 2500 or so in sundry bits
Add a head gasket or two + rings: 1000
Time to construct....Eek!
Raw Oil Processing tank: ....Oops..
Oil transfer Pumps:...  Duh...
Cables and Auto Grid Switchover kit: ....Don't go there...
Closure and Doors to Weatherproof ....Damn....

Right, so add it all up and it should pay for itself in another 1 000 years or so....

Keep it puffing!!

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #410 on: November 01, 2016, 08:27:56 AM »
Hey Glort,

I reckon the fun for me, is well, making things work! I love to take a sideways look at things and play the "what if" games .... Satisfying to do on a practical level. (Of course, a lot of the scenarios played out are false starts and blind alleys, but with the practical aspect, most of it can be worked around!

I am "eventually" getting round to doing the full prep on TM2 - As I am stripping him down, I am modding and polishing the innards to a level that I am satisfied with. Most of him is sitting on the bench, mods done now, as well as cleanup and smoothing. The last dozen or so bolts have to be pulled out to remove the crank and trumpet housings, but I am playing with an idea to make up an adjustable bushing for his cam idler gear. The existing bolt for it is in fair condition, but I am not entirely happy with the mesh depth on the teeth. I am toying with the idea of making a double eccentric bush to adjust the mesh on both the cam and the crank gear simultaneously. I have noticed the racket the cam idler makes on TM1 and want to get away from that. The only downfall is that I will have to machine the hole for the idler pin quite a bit larger than it is currently. I haven't taken measurements yet so I am not sure as to the material availability on the trumpet housing....more on that later when I have a good squiz at it!

Another thing I will be toying with is to fit dual flywheels on both sides, that will be quite an exercise in packing things together as I intend to try and use gib keys if at all possible... The heads on the gib's mean there has to be a bit of space between the bosses of the wheels.... The long crankshaft ends are starting to get short!

On another note, we have a small perennial stream on our property with a few metres of runoff, but there is one major problem - Crime! A micro CHP setup would be an awesome project, but the transmission lines if we generated power and piping if we pumped water, would get stolen within a week. ANYTHING left on the property containing copper/aluminum out in the open, whether secured, buried, aerial or probably even guarded with armed guards gets appropriated by the local "its our right" crowds for scrap resale... Ye gods, they even steal our safety nets for the paintball range... (And these are just shade cloth)... We even have a cellular telemetry tamper alarm hooked to them to try and curtail losses... I have given up trying to erect spotlights over the playing field for night games - We installed spotlights with an aerial supply cable on 3m high poles first - they lasted a week or two, the next batch were installed on 12m high poles, they lasted a two months. Both lots were stolen, cables first, then lights, then poles.... This is 200m in clear view from the house, usually around 3am they move in and help themselves.... Off-pissing to say the least!! (I wish I could erect a 6m security wall around the entire place... That would probably get stolen too though...)

Enough ranting...time to go do some work!

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed

12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #411 on: November 01, 2016, 12:12:30 PM »
(Let's Try this again... Damn laptop crashed!)

Minor update:

There is about 1/2" of material around the hole for the idler spindle(On the trumpet housing flange), opening up the hole in the casing et al by about 1/4" should leave enough material to allow for the eccentric bushing... Next step, check the idler spindle step to see if there is enough meat to allow for it to clamp and seat in the normal manner and still cover the eccentric bushing with overlap.... (In the words of an old machinist mate of mine: "Measure carefully, lest the ID become greater than the OD!")

Keep on modding...

Cheers
Ed

Another Update: The difference in dia on the pin is around 1/4"... ie about 1/8" per side... Given that the mesh is probably less than 20 thou out, a double eccentric bush might still be feasible - failing that, I might have to settle on a single eccentric bushing to get things into line once it is measured up and ready...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 01:27:41 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #412 on: November 02, 2016, 08:34:40 AM »
Hey Glort,

I ran some tests a while back - running at around 500RPM TM1 worked well. He had enough power to pull the average off peak load on the household and was nice and quiet. One problem that surfaced, was the fact that my UPS's - 3 of them, all complained bitterly about the power quality and fell back to battery standby due to the pulsing. I am hoping that the additional flywheel weight will give just a little more stability to the power stroke to allow them to run quietly.... (All other household electrical goods worked flawlessly.)

The wheels are individually balanced, no counterweights. I am adding counterweights to the inboard wheels to allow for silk smooth running throughout the rev range I will be using(Well as smooth as a big vertical single can be made!). Out of the four wheels I am using, (two of which were scrappers for rated 1000rpm, but have been retested and prepped for 500rpm), there are 3 sizes - the 2 identical wheels will be on the IP side and the Larger/smaller two will go on the far side...If it all works out as planned anyway. I have also gotten hold of a LARGE CI pulley which I might add as a flywheel on the genhead itself, just  need to get it qualified to the rated revs, if indeed I do decide it needs more smoothing - I am not wild about genhead flywheels in general though....

Vermin control is usually with 12ga around here... Youtube the Rhodes University Riots to see... About the 10Kv option...That's a no-go... The buggers steal 22Kv lines by throwing chains over them and shorting them out... they then haul on the chains to pull down the lines and make off with them once the lines trip out on overload... The problem here is the number of escape routes for the miscreants to use - Now and than I have caught and handed over a few of the perps but they generally come late night/early morning and being naturally camouflaged, they are difficult to see in bad light....

Putting in K9 or NO17 control is also not an option for me... the "risky area" has about 1 to 2 km of fencing that will be needed - the original fencing was stolen and I cannot afford to replace it. The "residential section" has CCTV and monitored electric fencing, even that's a pain to maintain as the locals take great delight in herding cattle into the fencing to test them regularly...

Shade cloth = insect screens for shacks, small chicken cages, walling for goat pens.
Lamp posts = main bearers for huts, corner posts for shacks, firewood, fencing and the like(If wood), steel lamp posts get folded up and traded at the scrap yard!

Welcome to the land of milk and honey (Easily attainable from your neighbor for free!!)

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #413 on: November 03, 2016, 09:05:02 AM »
Hey Glort,

I don't know the Ruggerini very well, but something in my memory banks says "look at rated operating speed" and "injection timing" - The Rugger was rated for a fairly narrow rev band if I remember correctly - it had a flywheel and balancing to match the revs needed for the application - Smaller flywheel for higher revs... Now this is going back quite a few years, so I might be way off track, but some bright sparks this side of the pond changed the injection timing and the rev range to bring the rpm down a bit, without looking at the dynamic balance of the things... The result was, well, as per Lister spec, "about 2ton of concrete should hold it down"...

Check where the "sweet spot rpm" is for your rugger by running it unloaded on a fairly "mobile" mount... Where it runs smoothly, aim for that! ... The power pulses will be a headache, with any sort of coupling, the best would probably be to go over spec on the belts somewhat - If you need one, use two... You could retard the injection event slightly-watch for smoking and power drop off, also listen to the diesel knock. This would smooth out the whole thing a bit, but, there is always some sacrifice in doing it.

Your problems with bolts breaking seem more to me to be with vibration from balance than the power stroke (Look at the amount of metal in shear or contact holding the flywheel from spinning on the crankshaft vs the hold-down kit...) ... But hey, I am an old fart with a bad memory, anything is possible! (That's the great thing about putting on a few years, as the memory fades, old problems are forgotten and the same ones crop up  recurrently to be solved as new problems all over again!!)

Do you have a youtube vid of the Rugger running that shows a bit of the vibration(and also the sound)?

Quote: "The lowlifes always play the part of the victim and blame government, social services, Booze, drugs, the price of fish in Bulgaria and everything else and short of causing bodily harm in front of 10 witnesses, the cops can't be stuffed even coming out when you call them. But of course they get really upset when anyone actually does anything particularly if it is effective and makes them look as useless as they largely are."

I couldn't have put it better myself! The last time I "arrested" a pair of miscreants who were caught in the act stealing (I confiscated their weapons - machetes and axes ) and threw them off the property after confiscating their barrows containing stolen goods... About an hour later, they were back with the cops to try and lay a charge against me for theft of their possessions... Fortunately, the chap in charge listened to what I told him and gave the two fellows a "good talking to".... It could have gone either way, I was just lucky I guess... Welcome to the endangered species list!!

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #414 on: November 04, 2016, 07:05:04 AM »
Hey Glort,

And you forgot to add in closing: An excellent cook. homemaker, handyman, lover, sensitive.....(you are not gay are you?.... I vaguely remember a joke based around the perfect man on these lines...)

But seriously though, since they stopped dishing out a good hiding for being naughty at school, things have spiraled.... You cannot reason with someone who has no fear of repercussion...

Then again, it is really difficult to enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent!

Keep on smiling (Or try to at least!!)

Cheers
Ed

PS - on another note, while on the subject of Lister engines, TM1 has now almost 100hrs on him since the last oil and filter change/service.... Since the service, the oil level hasn't dropped by more than a couple of mm... If you remember me mentioning (take that as griping) that he needed an almost daily top up to keep the level up.... I haven't pulled the cylinder or decoked the ring grooves at all.... I am highly suspect that running on WMO immediately after and since changing the rings did not allow the rings to bed in normally - It looks like its taken around 800hrs or so to get things "groovy"! ... Possibly the added lubricity of the WMO as a fuel? ... Starting on WMO? ... Turning the motor over for 20-30 sec with it injecting WMO before starting?(My simple mind has remembered that most engine wear occurs immediately at startup, before oil has had a chance to lube everything-Coincidence?) .... Who knows? ... But it will be interesting to see the condition of the internals and the run time to failure when he falls apart again!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 07:16:58 AM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #415 on: November 07, 2016, 01:20:04 PM »
Hey Guys,

Another episode on the "Interesting Times" or otherwise known as the "Don't Double-Time your Lister(oid), It Will Get Jealous!!"

I spent Friday evening in the welding shop, arb-ing around and knocking up some "basic stainless steel 5mm bar racking for a wet environment" (A facecloth, soap and shampoo shower rack doesn't sound nearly as impressive!), while TM1 thumped away beautifully for around a 10 hour shift, I started him running early in the mid-afternoon and ran him all the way through to late evening. He was a little "wandery" in the revs department/governor by late evening, I put it down to a prematurely clogged fuel filter.(This one only did about 100L of prefiltered gunk, as opposed to the last one, same make and model, which did almost 700L or thereabouts.Anything is possible, possibly I contaminated the fuel during filtering, or maybe this batch had some extra fines in it, or maybe .... well whatever, but it happened!

The following day(Saturday) I continued with the leisurely tear-down of TM2, managed to measure the amount of slack that was evident the camshaft gear train....it worked out to 2.4mm that the center-line of the idler bolt was out(That's with 0 clearance on the gears and starting to bind...Allow about .4mm clearance on that measurement or so on an eccentric bush and that should give me a good starting point to get things together. The bulk of the clearance was on the camshaft side of things, there was just a wee bit too much slop on the crankshaft meshing side, a little inwards would do the trick... More on this later...

Once the measurements were made for TM2, I changed the fuel filter on TM1 (Mutter, mutter, mutter... Cross threaded the damn thing and stuffed up the threads... Fixed that minor stuff up and carried on!) Once the fuel system was bled, I started him up and away he went, takes a few minutes to get the last few bubbles out of the lines that trap in the high parts of the crappy fuel line routes I have taken and the new filter cartridge, but nothing serious, no great pain...

Of course, I did do the cursory checks , oil level still above minimum, water present and accounted for, valves and rockers oiled, tappets oiled, governor linkages oiled.... Run up on the starter for around a minute or so(maybe a bit less)... Now, bear in mind, TM1 has been a bit of a thirsty bugger in the sump department up until about the last 120 hours or so ago. Just prior to his last 400hourly service about 100 hours ago, he stopped using sump oil and I have not had to top it up since service, even though I check it religiously before each run. I put that down to the WMO I am using having a higher than Dino lubricity and slowing down the run-in process...

A bit of Background: TM1 (and TM2) both have a sump with "apron" - the oil is picked up through the strainer in the apron and pump to the TRB's / Crankshaft pickup ring after going through an aftermarket canister filter. This system has worked beautifully for the last couple of thousand hours or so. I have added a dipstick to the apron side of the engine, the high oil mark has been calibrated to when the oil level is just below the big end housing/nuts at BDC, the low oil mark is when the apron weir notch is just exposed above the oil by about 1/4 to 1/2" - this is a far more meaningful (to me anyway - correct me if I am wrong) way of checking the oil level - the original dipstick only shows the level in the weir..... The apron could be empty under certain conditions....

Right... Now the jealousy steps in - I am sure that TM1 was getting jealous of the attention I have been giving TM2... He threw his toys out of the cot and stopped his oil pump from doing anything... The bastard even hid it from me... The oil pump is still moving freely, just no oil is flowing....something has gotten stuck somewhere(probably one of the balls in the valves) and oil is just not moving!! - Net result: No oil flowing into the weir to be splashed around, no lube to the cylinder walls, no lube to the big end.... Piston seized in cylinder!! Fuggit!! Tomorrow is another day...

Sunday: Eventually got around to taking off the CC cover and poking around properly... I didn't pull the big end cap, but did feel it for play... Not much, if any, to be felt. I eventually got the bastard turning over and added copious amounts of lube oil to the top of the piston while doing so. Feels like the rings did a nice "jam job" in the upper cylinder. (I didn't pull the head, just gently bumped the flywheel back and forth to break things free.... It seems as if there is an excessive amount of play on the small end bushing, something to be attended to in the near future...)

Well, I figured, my bench is currently full of stripped down and mostly modded TM2... No way I am going to tear TM1 down as well... Lets do what the peasants do when the things gum up and stop working... Add oil, wind it over, see if it starts...

After allowing him a loooong wind over on the starter, I threw the compression relief and pump stop.... He fired right up!

He is breathing a little harder out of the breather, but no oil leaks as yet... Maybe there's broken rings, maybe there's a scored cylinder, maybe a galled piston... Maybe, at the very least, the rings cooked and softened... Who knows? (Anybody want to hazard a guess as to the damage?)

I will tear him down in the near future, but what pee's me off with this is that now my run time on these rings/cylinder with WMO fuel will be skewed... Oh well... just 900hrs of run time wasted from a data collection point of view... (incidentally, he is still running without oil pump... I am just keeping the oil level above the weir in the interim until I can get round to seeing whats crapped out on the pump....I wonder how long he will last?)

Keep it spinning

Cheers
Ed

Edit: On TM2's eccentric bushing for the idler gear - I drilled the casing and trumpet, then reamed the hole out to 20mm. Into this I added a tophat section bushing with the center hole to suit the idler spindle offset by 2mm. This is inserted from the outside and locked in place by the existing spindle. I have adjusted the play evenly on both sides and put a telltale mark on bushing and casing for reference. This has given me around 10 thou play(backlash) in both the crank and cam departments individually...  Initially I was looking at an eccentric in an eccentric type bushing, but with the play that was evident, there was just not quite enough real estate available to accomplish this.... This "fix" was a lot easier to do than remaking a stepped idler spindle... Once in place and tightened, it holds well and is easy to install.... Anybody wanting a picture? Just let me know!!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 01:37:14 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #416 on: November 08, 2016, 11:00:08 AM »
Hey Glort,

Always entertaining to read of your "practical solutions" to the neighborly problems!!

My nearest neighbor is about 2 or 300m away as the crow flies.... He has remarked, on occasion, that he likes similar music to me... He notices it generally on a Sunday morning when I throw the patio doors open on the bedroom, lie back in bed and wind up Led Zee, Boston, Deep P or the like.... Its amazing how far 2Kw RMS (Sony 1Kw RMS 7.2 with 2x500W Active Sub Woofers) of good stuff can carry on the morning breeze.... In fact, I often "get requests" to play a song or two from our paintball range.... and that's 300m from the house.... Strange.... Now that I come to think of it.... I thought my hearing loss was due to years of shooting....

While on the subject of Listers': As to the bore, I am sure the seize and stop did a bit of damage, not too much(at this stage anyway), but enough for me to want to take it down and do an inspection when I get a chance... I am still thinking, dunno why, that I might have a broken compression ring in the mix now...(there is no unusual "squeak/grating" sound at top or BDC that sometimes accompanies a broken ring as it starts to cant in the groove)... Just a gut feel....

TM1 does have a slinger, in fact its got a hollow dipper with an oversize slinger... All in, about as wide at the tip as a regular slinger turned sideways, so there should be plenty of lube all around... What worries me a bit, is how many iron filings from bore and rings are in solution now that the pump is not filtering the crap out... Oh well, it must just wait till TM2 is more of a single entity rather than a landscaping project!!

I am still loathe to install a low pressure alarm, trying to keep it simple... Far easier to just shift the "low oil" mark up on the dipstick up by 1/2" or so... that way, the weir notch is always wet and oil will be available in the top sump!! I did think of a sight tube of sorts, something like I have on my old "Elliot Universal Mill" - It shows oil when the pump is running...Must think about this one... Simple to put a up side down U bend in with a sight glass at the top to show....Hmmm....

Ron: I haven't forgotten you!! Post the reply you PM'd me on the open board here as a reminder... I will take a pic or two and URL them for everyone...

Right.... I gotta go earn some sheckles to pay for my mechanical addictions...

L8rs!

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

EdDee

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #417 on: November 08, 2016, 12:39:17 PM »
Hey Ron,

So much for earning $$$ to feed my habit....

Here's the pics: http://www.warriorpaintball.co.za/private/TM2 Offset Bush for Idler 20161107 .... Sorry about a) the crappy quality of the pics - b)the crappy machining...

The first two are of the bush installed and in position, the telltale is clearly visible... The next couple show it removed from the casing and in various positions to give a general idea of its shape... The last one is how it all looks when assembled, the bush is tapped into the crankcase/trumpet from the outside, then the idler spindle is inserted from the inside... All goes together quite easily...

This was about the simplest solution I could come up with to allow for "machining tolerances" of our Indian friends.... There are undoubtedly better ways of doing it, just not quite as quick, dirty and easy as this... Hand Drill, Hand reamer, vernier and a bit of time with a drill press and a 20mm piece of shaft could do it... Where I  machined up a bush with a built in washer, a 20mm shaft with separate washer would do just as well....

The overall outside sleeve diameter is 20mm, the bearing surface of the spindle is just over 22mm or so... there is not much "step" on the thick side of the bushing for the bearing edge to mate to the inner of the crankcase to keep the pinion straight, but by my reckoning it should just make it!

Keep it spinning...

Cheers
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

vdubnut62

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #418 on: November 09, 2016, 12:17:55 AM »
Thanks for that EdDee!  I was really gonna repost the IM but there is no outbox for it to be saved in and after a very good supper of broiled stuffed salmon and a passable liquor store boxed Moscato ( yeah nothing but the best snort here) I couldn't remember it word for word.
Ron.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous

dieselspanner

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Re: The Listeroid Chronicles-WMO and Other Listeroid Modifications
« Reply #419 on: November 09, 2016, 06:50:00 AM »
Hi Ed

I can't open the photo's of the bush, may well be me, A, i'm crap with the www, B I'm using a Chromebook and I've yet to master the little bugger!

Anyway, I'm off down to Spain to give a rich blokes 35m Med Sled a good thick coat of looking at, one of the engines is out of line with the gearbox and is trying to vibrate it's self to death. After the CS walking around the workshop I'll probably struggle to find anything.

The good news is I'll get a go in a shipyard and should be able to get a bush knocked up. I've not had time sort out how exactly much offset I need, by feel it was around a mil and a half (60 thou) how far out was yours?

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.