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Author Topic: Valve train clatter?  (Read 3471 times)

George A

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Valve train clatter?
« on: August 08, 2015, 02:23:03 PM »
After numerous teething troubles, I'm finally beginning to run my Vidhata 6/1 generator setup more and more. I noticed that there seems to be a slight "clattering" sound, coming from the pushrods or tappets...I think. Both tappets rotate as they should and the valve clearance is set at .017 intake and .032 exhaust. I'm wondering if it might be the cam lobes actually "whacking" the tappets instead of gently lifting them. The noise is slight, but there. Is this normal?
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

32 coupe

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Re: Valve train clatter?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2015, 02:49:00 PM »
My Metro has some clattering as well. I think what I hear in mine is the point where the cam rotates
from one lifter to the next.

Do you have a bronze gear ?

Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

George A

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Re: Valve train clatter?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2015, 05:10:28 PM »
No, it still has the stock cast iron gear. I measured the total play between the gears (back lash) and it was within limits if I recall.........that was some time ago, but the engine only has perhaps four hours total running time at this point.

I've thought about replacing the gear with a bronze one. Would that be recommended before I go too much farther? Preventive medicine is much better than an internal catastrophe!
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

32 coupe

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Re: Valve train clatter?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2015, 07:13:19 PM »
My Metro still has the cast gear as well. It does clatter as well.
It probibly has about 200 hrs. on it at this point.

My Ashwamegh has a  bronze gear and an offset bolt I made for it.
I haven't run it enough to really say about the noise on that one.

I know early on the whole gear train on most of  these engines were suspect.
Most here will recommend a bronze gear and offset bolt.

If you are comfortable with your backslash you should be OK.    BUT there have been
gears shown here with broken teeth or worse ( total engine failure).
The gear and bolt are pretty cheap insurance if there is any question in your mind.

Gary

« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 07:55:46 PM by 32 coupe »
Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
John Deere 110 TBL
New Holland TC 30

"I was sitting here reading this thinking what an idiot you are until I realized it was one of my earlier posts !"

BruceM

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Re: Valve train clatter?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2015, 07:42:24 PM »
I spent  some time on this issue with my older metro 6/1.  Excessive lash on the cam can be a contributor, but it is NOT the only source.  The other big source is that the tappet and cam profile cause the tappets to not follow the cam, and instead to lift off them after the lobe peak and then slap down on the following cam slope.

You can confirm that this is your issue by lightly pressing the rocker arms down on the push rods with your fingers... the audible clack should disappear. Ronmar suggests using very soft springs under the between the rocker and push rod to take up this (valve lash) slack.  Hotater put fine lead shot in his pushrod cups to prove that this was the issue...it made it go away until the lead was pulverized.  I even tried making lightweight pushrods out of carbon fiber tubing (with steel ends) to see if it would help but it did not.

The valve tappet clacking is very pronounced on my Metro 6/1, even with a bronze idler and 0.055" offset idler to get an appropriate valve lash.   It does not seem to adversely affect cam lobe or tappet wear, and my engine has about 2600 hours of running time.  I have meant to implement Ronmar's spring method to stop the clacking but always seem to have a project of higher priority.

I think the bronze idler was a good stopgap measure but the solution to early idler gear failures has clearly been solved by XYZer's research and development of offset idler bolts.  I don't see much point in a bronze idler for a properly set up engine, though they certainly won't hurt.  They don't solve the tappet clacking.

Best Wishes,
Bruce






« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 07:45:06 PM by BruceM »

George A

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Re: Valve train clatter?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2015, 10:20:31 PM »
I think I found the source of the mysterious "clacking" and it has nothing to do with the valve train......or anything else on the engine for that matter.

My 6/1 is mounted on a welded I beam frame, with 2 x 6 steel box cross pieces. At the end of those cross pieces are four temporary stout casters so I can wheel it out on the garage floor for work or running. Now, the engine end weighs about 750 lbs. and the generator end weighs about 120 lbs. Guess which end of the frame bounces.......just slightly......and whacks the casters up and down? Yup. The movement is almost undetectable, but if I put my weight on the generator end by standing on the frame, the whole rig quiets down (slaps forehead in disgust).

I can't wait to get it on a solid footing so a lot of the noises go away!
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.