350 rpm 6/1?

[George A]

That's interesting Veggie...........the rocker arms make more noise than the exhaust!!

[veggie]

650rpm,

Here's a newer video of the 350 rpm listeroid charging the battery bank.
The Delco 33si spins at 3000 rpm and provides a maximum of 95 amps to the batteries.
The lid of the battery box has a 3000 watt mod-sine inverter mounted to it (not shown).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKbUQqNq3Xs&feature=youtu.be

If you do slow your listeroid down to this level you may need to modify your governor in two ways.
1] As a minimum you will likely need a lighter spring. I found a spring approx. 1/2 the tension of the stock unit.
2] As noted by others, you may need to add mass to you governor weights in order to get any throttle response at low speeds.
At 300 to 350 rpm the governor weights barely react to small increases in load.

hope this helps,
Veggie

[buickanddeere]

Not saving anything slowing the engine down. Plus the ignition of the fuel is spotty as the combustion chamber temperature is lower at the 350rpm injection event than the temp is at the 650rpm injection event.

[veggie]

Not saving anything slowing the engine down. Plus the ignition of the fuel is spotty as the combustion chamber temperature is lower at the 350rpm injection event than the temp is at the 650rpm injection event.

Not true!

1] Fuel consumption has reduced dramatically. Why speed the engine at 650 rpm, 6HP speed when only using 2.5 HP ?
2] At 350 rpm, the engine is now running at 80% of its capable load
3] High engine temps can easily be maintained by the thermostat

Veggie

[EdDee]

Hey Veggie,

How well does the splash/pump lube work at the lower RPM? Is there enough oil being thrown around to do the job?

Regds
Ed

[BruceM]

I would not expect a problem with splash only/TRBs at 350, as the splash at 650 is grossly excessive.  I put a piece of plexiglass over mine while working on my gravity fed oil filter below the big door.  The oil and oil vapor is a torrent.  You could always turn the dipper sideways. 

[veggie]

Hey Veggie,
How well does the splash/pump lube work at the lower RPM? Is there enough oil being thrown around to do the job?

Hi Ed

As Bruce noted, there does not seem to be any issue with lubrication.
In the old days, Lister CS engines were run at speeds ranging from 300 to 650 rpm depending if they were spinning cotton or pumping water or running a lineshaft in a machine shop.
My engine is a GM90 "mini-Listeroid" ( about 30% smaller than yours) which are a bit different in that mine has an internal crank driven plunger oil pump which force feeds the con-rod bearing through an oil gallery.

cheers,
Veggie

[buickanddeere]

  Not realistic. run it at 650 rpm or more. Not saving anything running it that slow.

[cujet]

  Not realistic. run it at 650 rpm or more. Not saving anything running it that slow.

On what basis? Combustion efficiency? Clearly, if one is considering BSFC, the engine may in fact be most efficient at some higher RPM. However, if one is considering fuel consumption per partial HP produced, (assuming the camshaft profile is appropriate) a lower RPM is almost always in order.

This is why driving a 5 speed car in 4th gear down the highway consumes more fuel. EVEN if the full load BSFC is best at 3000RPM, shifting into 5th and dropping to 2000 RPM saves fuel. Modern cars may run as low as 1100RPM in top gear at 55MPH. Why? The friction is so much lower at low RPM, fuel savings result.

Without instrumented testing, we can't make the claim one way or the other. If Veggie says he saves fuel, he probably does.

[dieselgman]

Good points all. Another angle - A car running at speed on the highway (straight and level) only requires a small fraction of available horsepower to maintain the road speed. This is a big factor in running the machine at its best fuel economy. A Lister likewise can be more efficient if run at the speed that the specific load requires, but not much to gain going over that sweet spot. Most modern gensets are run at 1800 rpm, however a 1200 rpm oversized set can be a very sweet thing indeed (spinning a 6-pole genhead). Detroit and Cummins both have good examples in our Alaska fleet. Think longevity!

dieselgman

[BruceM]

My 6/1 sure carbons up fast if left idling or with a small load, confirming for me the adage of don't run a diesel without a good load on it.

Slowing the engine down so that it was working at a decent load for the speed seems like a good solution for something like Veggies battery charger setup.  The engine sound at 350 is quite pleasant, too.  Another Veggie masterpiece.

[veggie]

BruceM, thanks for the kind words.

I agree Glort, personal preference has a lot to do with it.
I just love the sound of the engine ticking over at the slower speed. Like a Swiss watch.
And why make more speed/HP than is needed for the application.
As long as the engine is sufficiently loaded to generate enough heat for clean combustion, things should be ok.
I agree that at a certain point damage can be done depending on the engine. Such as...
A] not enough splash lube
B] lugging and pounding of the rod ends due to lack of flywheel inertia

In essence, size the pulleys and engine speed according to your loads.
If I ran the Listeroid at 650 RPM it would only be loaded to ~25%. Not my preferred situation.

veggie