Ha 4 lost oil pressure after oil service

[Gensetsteve]

Newbie here saying hi. Apologies for joining with a problem but my problem led me to find and join your site so hopefully I can help in future.


Bit of a strange one this for me after nearly 30 years of servicing generators this has me stumped. Run the generator on arrival to site with no apparent problems dropped the lube and refilled with a semi syn 15/40.  On restarting the engine it shut down on low oil pressure. I traced the oil line back to a tee piece. I can remove the tee piece and run the engine with no oil loss or pressure. The oil supply pipe to the governor if removed sprays oil out. So I seem to have oil pressure around the engine.  I then changed the oil filter in case this was blocked although we felt unlikely as the engine is standby and rarely runs more than 5 hours a year.

The generator is 50 miles from our base so I thought I would ask you guys for advice in case I have over looked something obvious. I am thinking the oil way is blocked and intend to return with a compressor to try and blow the muck out through the other gallery. The only other thing I can think of is some kind of air lock.  
Thanks in advance if any one has idea would be grateful to hear it

[dieselgman]

The HA uses a very robust gear-driven pump that rarely fails... usually only when the drive gear shears off the pin or the gears are otherwise compromised. There is a messy bit of plumbing involved on the output that involves o-ring seals and a sprung check-ball to act as pressure relief. I would look carefully from that point and just follow the oil lines through the system to try and find the issue. With front gear cover off, you can pull the pump idler gear and manually spin up pump pressure without turning the engine over - for diagnosis purposes.

dieselgman

[Gensetsteve]

Thanks for your advice. Anything is possible as I think the engine had a life before ending up as a standby. I will try and clear the oil way then move on to the front cover.

[mactoollover2005]

Hi

Have you always used semi syn 15/40 in this engine or is this the first time??

[Gensetsteve]

It could be the first time it has semi syn. But we did put the old oil back in to prove the point and same problem. I thought may be the oil was thinner but cold semi has to be thicker than hot mineral.  Although cold mineral may be thicker and once the engine is warm it may prime up and pump thin oil ok.  I am still thinking blocked oil way as I seem to have oil pressure on the other banjos.

[dieselgman]

I forgot to ask you where your oil gauge line was connected... normally this would be right at one of the oil filter connection banjo (swivel union) plugs.

If you are lacking any oil at that particular connection point, then slack the filter canister and see if it is spewing out oil. You could have blocked the oil supply when changing out the filter.

dieselgman

[Thob]

Did you change the oil filter before you had the problem?  It has me wondering if the oil filter housing is plumbed backwards and you put a filter on that has an anti-drainback valve in it, which the old one didn't have?  Just a wild guess...  Like Gary said - remove the filter and see if oil comes out there.  Oil should go into the row of holes in the outer part of the filter and come out the center hole in the filter and back into the engine from there.

[Gensetsteve]

Luckily and very unusually we were going to skip the oil filter change as the oil was clean engine had run less that an hour in a year. So the problem appeared before the oil filter was disturbed. I did change the filter afterwards in case it was the problem.  The oil pressure gauge is tee pieced into the same supply as the fuel injection pump. The drilling points skywards just in front of the injection pump. There is another Bangor at the front of the block which supplies the governor with lube this appears to have good oil pressure.

[dieselgman]

I am not sure I understand your response regarding the oil pressure gauge. You mentioned a connection via Tee at same supply as fuel injection pump... however, the lubricating oil system and the fuel injection systems are completely isolated from one another.

Maybe a picture would help us understand what you are describing.

dieselgman

[Gensetsteve]

Yes I am sorry without pictures it's difficult to explain. I will try and get some pics if I can't cure the problem on the next visit. The fuel injection pump has an oil supply when the level is high enough it returns down a pipe which is attached below the oil filler neck. I think the generator manufacturer must of made the tee piece so a Murphy switch gage could be fitted. I have a feeling the injection pump has been starved of oil for a while as the small amount that dripped out the pump looked very black when I loosened its banjo.

[listard-jp2]

The fuel injection pump has an oil supply when the level is high enough it returns down a pipe which is attached below the oil filler neck.  I have a feeling the injection pump has been starved of oil for a while as the small amount that dripped out the pump looked very black when I loosened its banjo.

Are you sure this is a Lister HA3 engine, because the HA3 engine has 3 individual flange mounted fuel pumps that reside inside the engine, and the HA3 engine definately has no pressurised engine oil supply to the fuel injection pumps.

Without a picture I can only speculate what Lister engine you have. In which case you may have:

1),  A Lister HL3 engine, but apart from some very specific applications they were always fitted with CAV rotary DPA pumps (which rely upon the fuel oil for lubrication), and not an inline fuel injection pump (which on Lister applications have oil lubrication system as you describe).

2), A lister HA4, HB4, or a very early HR4, as these all had CAV inline fuel injection pumps.

[Gensetsteve]

I will have a look in the records it definately said ha3 but it does not have individual injector pumps it does remind me of hr4 engine with same cartridge oil filter. Doing a oil service I never looked that close.

[dieselgman]

Yes, a fairly drastic change in fuel system design happens between the 3-cylinder and 4-cylinder Lister versions. Must be HA4 or something similar...

dieselgman

[Gensetsteve]

My mistake your right it's a ha4 and I think it had an inline fuel injection pump which explains the oil supply. I have seen images on line of a ha4 and it does look exactly the same with horizontal oil filter housing round the back. The engine also seems to have a separate oil supply to the injection pump governor. If I can't get to the bottom of this may have to take a feed off this.

[Gensetsteve]

Just  a quick up date been back to site with compressor to try and clear oil way. But after much huffing and puffing and looking with torch I have a theory that at the bottom of the tapping I can see the back of a cam shaft bearing shell. Now I assume it's either been fitted incorrectly or turned in the block. Blowing down the hole does not produce any air from the tapping on the front of the engine. With the enigine running a tiny drop of oil forms at the base of the hole. IMG_0129.JPG

How do u post pics on here or do I need a higher post count.