First time Lister owner

[biggkidds]

Hi All

 I recently got a Lister ST1. The build code is 1928ST1A31-31. I'm hoping to turn this into a genset. I believe it was made in 81 and runs at 1800 RPM. It is worn out and in need of a rebuild. But before  sink a bunch or dough in this engine I wanted to ask opinions. Will this make a good continuous duty generator engine? We live off grid have for 7 years now. I'm tired of buying / repairing gennys all the time. Looking for something as close to bullet proof as I can find. How many years of 24/7 service could I expect from this engine between rebuilds? We've been running a Honda EU2000 for the last 16-18 months. It does very well and burns very little fuel say 3 gallons in 24 hours with regular loads. Once we get to warm weather the AC will run that up to 4 - 4.5 gallons in 24 hours. When drawing heavier loads like washing clothes we switch to a larger genny. Yes we have a lot of generators. lol Some solar power too, but our battery bank has pretty much had it. I would like to end up with multiple redundant systems of good quality. I would also like to add a greenhouse with some winter lighting so a larger fuel efficient generator is needed.  

 It was dropped as it was removed and did some damage I got enough fixed to fire it up. Had to put oil in the intake to gain enough compression to start. It would only run seconds before slowing down and stopping. It started with heavy black smoke from the engine oil poured in the intake. That cleared up after 10-15 seconds and burned clear for maybe 20 seconds then started producing a dark grey almost black smoke and slowed down till it quit after another 20 seconds or so. The valve cover and and intake/exhaust adapter were damaged in the fall. When I took the adapter off to repair I found the intake runner had a good bit of trash. The gasket was improperly installed and had been sucking trash through an opening about .030 wide and the length of the intake opening. So I would guess it's going to need a major overhaul.
 What engine and generator head would you pick for continuous duty?
I have many more questions but if the answers to these don't add up to what I need then there's no point in asking those.

Thanks for allowing me to join and any help information you are willing to share.

Larry

    

[dieselgman]

Larry,

The ST1 is a very popular unit for off-grid homesteaders, hunting camps and the like. It will run dependably and continuously as long as it gets routine maintenance and TLC when needed. I would expect 10,000 hour decarb service at the minimum if running clean diesel fuel... (rings & valve service as well as general internal cleaning.) Typical major component replacement might be around 20,000 hours. The beauty of these is the design allows for almost indefinite rebuilds so it can be used for decades or longer without too much trouble. I know people in the Alaska bush who have run these for 35 years and they are still going strong. That is of course with the routine decarb service as well as the minor rebuilds along the way. 24/7 365 is 8760 hours so you can interpret your maintenance schedule from that if you are running continuous.

So, what does the ST1 have over one of the antique CS models? 1.) It is designed to close-couple with a 4-pole head, runs at 1800rpm, makes a very stable and fuel efficient 5kW + generator. 2.) It is considerably more compact and lightweight than a CS, basically about 1/2 the size overall. 3.) It is of relatively modern manufacture and design and all parts are readily available from a wide dealer network. 4.) It sounds like you have one already in hand and only have to repair the damages it has incurred.

There is also a fair listing that would recommend the CS over an ST... more flexibility with alternate or waste fuels, larger easier to work on parts and assemblies, slow-speed for less noise and overall wear-and-tear, probably a dozen other major factors that others here might want to comment about.

dieselgman

[biggkidds]

Dieselman thanks for the comprehensive reply. I have been looking for a CS ever since we went off grid. This just sort of dropped in my lap last weekend, cost me gas to pick up but that's it. So if I understand your reply correctly this is a good choice of engines to have but a CS might be better since they turn slower. But a CS also may not be quite as clean a power producer. Is that correct? Are you still selling CS clones? If so are they ones your shop has been through or does that still need to be done after purchase? Hmmm I've only got 7 running gennys I'm sure to need one or two more at some point. lol I like back ups for the back ups!!! 

[biggkidds]

Another question for you knowledgeable people. In the ST Range workshop manual it states the ST1 burns .405 fuel an hour @ 1800 RPM with full load. Can anyone put that in american english for me please. Do they mean .405 of a gallon per hour or some other measure?

Thank you for any help.

[dieselgman]

4/10s of a gallon per hour sounds about right for a fully loaded 5kW ST. The usual scientific fuel consumption rating is given as: grams of fuel per horsepower per hour.

dieselgman

[biggkidds]

Thank you again! I've got your Email and stuff soon as I am ready to get everything ordered I'll be getting int ouch with you. It'll probably be in early july. I think I am just going to order everything for a major overhaul before I tear it down. I am very limited on work space under cover. Plus that way I don't forget how things go and nothing gets lost.

 I also found a couple CS Lister 6/1's for sale. Wonder which gets better fuel economy a 6/1 or ST1?

[AdeV]

There's a rather excellent resource for genuine Lister owners here: http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/spec.htm

This covers a wide range of Diesel engines (unfortunately, not including the air-cooled ST range). There is, however, an ST workshop manual available online (http://www.winget.co.uk/document/LISTER%20ST%20WORKSHOP%20MANUAL.pdf).

From that, I can tell you that the "0.405" is the specific fuel consumption in lbs/bhp/hr. Since your machine is rated at 7.3bhp @ 1800rpm, it will consume 2.95lbs fuel per hour at full load. As it happens, that works out at almost exactly 0.4 US Gal per hour...

From the spec page, a 6/1 at full load will consume 3 UK pints per hour (0.5pt/bhp/hr * 6bhp) - 0.45 US Gallons.

Therefore, the ST1 is somewhat more efficient, as you get 1.3 extra bhp for 0.05gals less fuel. Contrariwise, you have to listen to an 1800rpm air-cooled "screamer", compared to the lazy 650rpm of the big lunger...

[dieselgman]

I concur... but they will be fairly close to each other. Usually a slightly higher efficiency can be had from the larger displacement engine (CS) but there are many other variables at play here such as rpm... and I would not call 1800rpm a screamer at all... just a steady putt putt putt rythym. 

dieselgman

[biggkidds]

Ade

 Thanks I'll check out that link when I have some time. I have a PDF copy of that manual.

Dieselman

  I agree 1800 isn't that fast especially when you'rt use to listening to a 3600 screaming.

 It sounds like either way is just about as good as the other. I have the ST here in hand and also have a good lead on a Lister 6/1 CS. What I'm short on at the moment is cash and time. I repair lawnmowers for a living and it is the busy season. Along with planting time and the season to get stuff done around the old homestead. IIRC the english call them smallholders?

 On another note anybody familiar with an 18/2 plow? I know my 35hp tractor doesn't like it a bit! I had to put a water pump on the tractor yesterday it's a 2006 Chinese Jinma 354 built about like a 60's  car. Not bad at all to work on.

[dieselspanner]

Hi biggkiddds

Yep, small holders, market gardeners, or the Jocks say crofters!

Best of luck with the growing season, even more with the power generation in the 'off' season!

Stef

[biggkidds]

Hi Everyone,

 Thanks for your replies and comments. I think I got lucky when I got this ST1 it looks like a better option than a CS 6/1 for us. I am working to get everything in order to make this happen sometime in July. Over the next year I will have to find another one or two ST1 engines to build identical to however the first ends up setup. Ideally three would be best one for the house one for my shop and a spare. Having 7 years off grid living under my belt I know the value of doubling your needs and spares for your spares. It's not like we don't have generation covered now with 7 generators, 2) troy bilt 5500W 1) Briggs 1000W 1) Chinese diesel 6800W (POS) 1) generac 3500W 1)Honda EU2000 and 1) no name 4500W. These are all 3600 RPM screamers and get on my nerves along with burning way to much fuel for the work they perform, With the exception of the Honda it's great on gas and only runs as hard as it needs to for the load at the time. None of these generators much likes pulling my Lincoln HD 175 welder but either troy bilt does it with complaint. Somehow I doubt the ST1 will be phased.

 Larry

 EDIT to add
The only downside I see for us using the ST1 verses a CS6/1 is the lack of water cooling. We could have used it for hot water and heat as a bonus. Even though the ST1 is air cooled I bet I can find a way to extract some of that waste heat, just not as much as a water cooled unit.