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Author Topic: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...  (Read 5285 times)

TxBlacksmith

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Hoping to get a little ahead of the game, while i rebuild my 6/1 SOM, I want to go ahead and purchase the gen head for my setup. 
Most recommend the ST type, a 5KW, with upgrades?  Some suggest sealed bearings, a metal fan?  What else should I look for?
This unit will power primarily lights, a small a/c unit during the summer, a few incidentals/  I do plan to plug in a computer or two, so I understand nI may need either a rectifier, or some kind of voltage regulator?  I am not sure I understand all of this part of it.  There seems to be a split decision on pulley sizes iand types?  Bushed versus not, flat belt over the twin v belts of the SOM. 
I understand there are a couple of members here who sell these gen heads, who might I need to contact?

dieselgman

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 05:23:45 AM »
I use Tom Osborne (Central Georgia Generator) for the Chinese stuff. He is very helpful and usually seems to have a good stock on hand. The ST head will typically come standard with Automatic Voltage Regulator. As long as you can spin the head at proper speed for your frequency requirements then the rest of the details are not a big deal. Your 6/1 is designed for 650 rpm, so with approximately 24" flywheels, you will need just under a 9" generator head pulley to run with a flat belt for 1800rpm and 60Hz. Otherwise many other pulley types are available and the size combinations will still need to yield the same rotational speed at the generator shaft.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 05:25:18 AM by dieselgman »
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38ac

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 12:41:47 PM »
The only reason to consider a serpentine belt is if you are off grid and running lots of hours. Then the small, actually very small decrease in load might pay off in fuel savings at some point. If you are building a stand by unit then forget the flat or micro V belt and go with two B  section belts and you will be able to get the exact size pulley you need for a fraction of the cost plus your belts will be in stock anywhere that sells belts. The V belts will track and pull just fine on a flat face flywheel.

We get along just fine wit our two ST heads, maybe we got lucky but we are running on the harmonic windings and no additional regulation. With the 15KW set at 60-61 Hz we are running right at 250 Volts cold and 240-242 when things are warmed up The 5KW set runs very similar numbers.Everything including the TV and computers runs just fine. Cant tell we are not on line power except for flicker.  Just suggesting you save the complications until your conditions prove need for them.  ;D
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TxBlacksmith

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 03:43:27 PM »
Thanks for the help gents.  I am not opposed to something better (more Expensive) than the chinese ST type, but in my search on the net, not much luck finding anything else.  All of the PM types and others I came across all require 3600 rpm speeds. At 650 rpm, I would think only a jack shaft
could be used to obtain these speeds and the power transmission loss would be significant.
If the legal entanglements don't squash my retirement plans, the 6/1 would indeed be a backup system for the house I want to build.  It is not unusual with Texas storms to have the lines ripped down and lose power for an extended time.  So occasionally the Lister might indeed be running for days at a time. 
A tornado came through nearby a few years ago and my neighbor was without his power for 3 weeks.  My land is currently unimproved, no power/water etc. 
The only agreement I seem to find on the ST heads in perusing the web, is that they are easy to work on.  Everybody says trash the doghouse, and put in a AVR, but they cant agree on the type ,etc.  I didn't think flicker was going to be much of a problem with the heavy SOM flywheels.

dieselgman

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 03:56:14 PM »
Stay with a 4-pole 1800rpm head... Go brushless if you have the funding (basically double the cost of the ST). There are some very nice Stamford copies (164A, 164B and so on) coming out of China that are worth the money. Even the Marathon high-end heads are now all made in China.

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BruceM

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 04:41:50 PM »
A warning-  plan on new bearings for an ST head, as well as removing the doghouse and perhaps bridge diode.  

The new ST-3 I got for the DES 8/1 propane conversion project is making bearing noise from the first run.  The "new" bridge diode is still pretty hokey looking and I'll replace it and relocate it and the AVR to an electrical box on the wall, not the generator head.  I ordered some SFK bearings.  For the price pf an ST-3 from CGG, I'm not complaining, and Tom at CGG got me the bearing part numbers so I could order them before tear down.

The good things about ST heads is the price and once corrected, they are reliable. Some units have a lot of spikes on the output due to the non-skewed windings, and the harmonic windings can provide enough distortion to confuse many AC frequency meters.  CGG has an AVR that can be run off of the mains for excitation instead of the harmonic winding, and this will eliminate the harmonic winding distortion as well as reduce flicker more effectively.  Even on 250 watt light/heat lamps, the stock harmonic setup had (to me, with epilepsy) unbearable flicker.  With my homebrew AVR I can tolerate down to 100watt bulbs for a while, and the 8- 250 watt heat/light lamps in my shop are OK for me.













« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 07:02:16 PM by BruceM »

mike90045

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 07:39:51 PM »
With my "stock" st5 (has new bearings) I do get light flicker, everything works, except the garage door opener.  I suspect the flicker gets interpreted as an obstacle
in the door path, and it "opens".

TxBlacksmith

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2015, 08:57:21 PM »
Is the reason to go with a brushless unit, just for the reduced maintenance?  I am running led lights in the cabin now, is flicker a problem with these?
The small fridge, and the 110 A/C are the only real loads on the system.  I use propane to heat during hunting season, although my wife might like to use the small electric convection oven occasionally.
Central Georgia doesn't list a brushless 5KW unit, but I assume its around 700-900 bucks?

dieselgman

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 12:31:49 AM »
The quality of the Stamford design is far ahead of the Chinese ST. Reduced maintenance is one factor, longevity, stability, are others. I think the Stamford copies start around 8kW and go up from there... our pricing is a bit higher but includes the shipment costs from Georgia to Kansas. Since your LEDs run on DC power, I believe that they are quite forgiving of the incoming AC power fluctuations.

dieselgman
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BruceM

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Re: Wanting to buy a generator head for my 6/1 SOM, Need advice...
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 01:10:50 AM »
Flicker on LEDs or CFLs will depend on the built in power supply.  If it's a good design, the output will be regulated and you'll have no trouble.  In an attempt to pinch pennies some designs do flicker.

I've run the Phillips LED bulbs on 120VDC, but not on my Lister power.  Their series string of LEDs is run at 90V, so I would guess it would be fine on Lister CS power.  The EMI was way too much for me, and I took one apart to see if I could adapt it for direct 120VDC operation.  I'm sticking with my soft white incandescent bulbs, the pinnacle (for comfort) of lighting technology.