Author Topic: Another 6/1 Restoration  (Read 121289 times)

broncodriver99

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #165 on: September 26, 2016, 02:28:15 PM »
What a great bunch of documentation. Thanks for sharing.

I know that look as well. I got that look and the related questions when I was dragging my Lister home as well as with some other things that seem to have little value to others. You should have heard the questions when I drug home a 67 year old chest freezer that is now running perfectly and likely will for a long time to come.

The way I see it is some people derive pleasure from tinkering with old iron and bringing things from years past back to life, some people prefer to play Pokemon Go and buy new stuff every few years.

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #166 on: October 16, 2016, 08:40:03 PM »
 ??? :o :-\ :P ?? TEMPORARY INSANITY ??  ??? :o :-\ :P

I've ALWAYS had a soft spot for green machines with my first love being the green machine with the yellow wheels. I have this opportunity to buy a complete and running John Deere 40 (original, not restored), but funds to buy it is a bit low at the moment... The only way out would be if I sell the Lister - but I love the machine and I've just worked way too hard to get it to where it is today to just get rid of it... The only way I might consider selling is if I was offered a truck load of cash for it. I'm truly worried that I'll be sorry if I let it go because it's not something that is easily replaceable. I'll probably find an engine if I really tried, but the alternator is a special bit of kit I was blessed with.

Do any of my local comrades have and idea what a genset like this would sell for in South-Africa? I frequently see 6/1 engines being advertised for between R12000 - R15000 on Junkmail, so would it be unrealistic to expect to get double that for a complete working genset?  

Update: 25 October 2016
I spoke to one of the local Lister agents, and they confirmed that the genset should sell relatively easily for R25,000.00 (US$1810 @ R13.81 / US$).
And no. I'm not selling!!! I'll make another plan. The Lister is going nowhere! 

Here is the latest video I made of it: https://youtu.be/hD5t_I9awDk
  
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 01:44:44 PM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #167 on: November 14, 2016, 07:03:32 AM »
With the Lister project done it feels almost strange not to be asking any questions or posting updates on this forum... I just have a small update on what I've been up to.

The Lister runs perfectly and it must feel like a celebrity with all the pictures that gets taken of it  ;D The minute someone sees it the hand automatically reaches into the pocket to grab hold of the phone  :laugh: I must now just make a plan to get the Lister emblems to finish it off properly and then take it to a show!

Anyway, after much scheming and lost sleep the John Deere is in the shed -- With the Lister safely in the garage  ;)

Playing with the Deere at home: https://youtu.be/nHv8jfOSLdw
Luckily it's running and mostly complete but pleeeeeeeeeenty work to be done.

Cheers!
God bless and let's pray Trump does what he said he would!
M.



« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 07:12:28 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

vdubnut62

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #168 on: November 14, 2016, 11:59:56 PM »
Hey! Good on Ya Dieselsmoker!  I do so hope you enjoy the 40 for  a long time to come! I have had  a 70 diesel for many years, we have all enjoyed showing, parading, and just enjoying the old iron.
Ron.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."   Plato.

"Remember, every time a child is responsibly introduced to the best tools for the protection of freedoms, a liberal weeps for the safety of a criminal." Anonymous

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #169 on: June 13, 2017, 11:56:27 AM »
It's been a while since I've been here - except for the occasional visit to just have a peek to see what's going on on the forum. I've also been busy every now and then to replace all the broken picture links from when the gallery went down. What a job, but almost done.

I've recently started working on the 6/1 again to tick off the last small items from the to-do list.
The cooling tank rusted through (weird), so I had to make a new one and rubberised it this time. Water splashing out has always irritated me and I experimented with a couple of ideas while on the subject. I think I nailed it with the last attempt!  8)  I'll take some pictures over the weekend after it's finished off and post it here.

I'm not too keen on putting anti-freeze in the tank as splashes are bound to happen during transport and loading - and you all know what will happen to that precious paint job  :o  I wonder if I can put some soluble oil in the water to keep the water fresh and clean and stop corrosion inside the engine? It should work? (providing it doesn't eat the rubberising in the tank...) Anyone done this or know of something that will work?

1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

mikenash

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #170 on: June 13, 2017, 02:48:40 PM »


Y'know, our old mate Starfire - who ran that old 3/1 over on the West Coast of New Zealand as his sole generator for maybe seven or eight years - said leave some oil floating on top of the coolant water to radically reduce evaporative loss.

It wouldn't surprise me if it left an oily residue on the tank surface?

Or you could do as I have done and use a copper hot water cylinder?

Cheers

AdeV

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #171 on: June 13, 2017, 04:06:00 PM »
Quote
Oil in cooling systems isn't supposed to be a good thing ( or is that steam engine Boilers?)  but worked fine for me.

Unexpected oil in the cooling system is suggestive of a head gasket failure & is therefore not a good thing.... similarly coolant in the oil (mayonnaise in the filler cap).

Obviously if you put the oil there yourself, that's a different matter!

How about using central heating inhibitor in a car cooling system? That's designed to prevent rust/scale, on dissimilar metals too (copper pipe/steel radiators/brass valves). I haven't looked at it myself, it rarely gets hot enough in the UK to bother a modern car's cooling system.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #172 on: June 14, 2017, 11:12:07 AM »
Y'know, our old mate Starfire - who ran that old 3/1 over on the West Coast of New Zealand as his sole generator for maybe seven or eight years - said leave some oil floating on top of the coolant water to radically reduce evaporative loss.

It wouldn't surprise me if it left an oily residue on the tank surface?
Makes sense that the layer of oil will achieve that, but I see two potential problems with that:
At work we have various fairly large lathes and turning centres with water coolant systems. Over time the mineral lubricating oil used on slideways and some leaks on the machines forms a oil layer on top of the water. The moment the surface is sealed off to "breathe", the water quickly goes bad. AND STINKS!!! There are nowadays anti-bacterial additives in the soluble oils to combat this, but the best fix is to skim the oil off every now and then with a vacuum cleaner.

It would probably not make a massive difference, but there will be loss of cooling capacity if the water cannot evaporate. I think I mentioned this earlier - my '42 Fairbanks-Morse 8Hp engine is hopper cooled, and it is required for the water to boil to achieve proper cooling. Something like ant-boil / anti-freeze in the water will thus cause the engine to overheat. A Lister can of course never get THAT hot!

Or you could do as I have done and use a copper hot water cylinder?
Oh yes! I love the look of the copper cylinders! But I can't find one to save my life... First prize for me would be a brass or copper radiator... But for now I'm making the best of the old grease drum  :D :D


For many years I ran a mixture of engine oil and detergent in my Vehicles cooling system.

I was basically trying to make soluble oil and seemed to achieve that. 
I worked. Never had any rust or corrosion in that cast iron engine.  <<SNIP>>

Dissolved the oil with the detergent to make a white mix and put it in with a new radiator.  Never had a cooling problem in the 3.5 years I had the car and never saw a speck of rust or scale. and I looked.  Frequently.
Interesting idea... I'm busy exchanging e-mails with one of our local oil suppliers and it seems like they have something synthetic that will do the job BUT at a price. Pity communication is not too good so I can't tell you much more now - I'll probably have to go there when I get time.


From what I did see the oil seemed to permeate the scale that was left and neutralize it.  Bit like fish oil. Had some rust in that car when I got it and I blew fish oil into it with an old spray gun turned way up so the oil was like a fog and that rust never moved. I pointed it out to the guy I sold the car to who was very pleased I had done it as he always did it to his cars too. <<SNIP>>
So I've never worked with fish oil before and inSTINCtively (excuse the pun) I'm thinking that your car now smells like dead fish??  :P ;D :o
Why fish oil? Does it go dry or sticky - unlike mineral oil?


Quote
How about using central heating inhibitor in a car cooling system? That's designed to prevent rust/scale, on dissimilar metals too (copper pipe/steel radiators/brass valves). I haven't looked at it myself, it rarely gets hot enough in the UK to bother a modern car's cooling system.
I'll never try out anything other than the OEM coolant additives in my car. It works well in our extremes of cold winters and hot summers, and the cost is not that high either. The coolant has a number of jobs to to, and if you miss one the repair bill could be ugly. (Anti-boil / anti-freeze / anti-corrosion + Water pump lube)
I recently changed the coolant on my 4.0 V6 Toyota. First coolant service was scheduled for 170,000 kms. The slow service frequency gives me one less thing to worry about. I like that  ;) More time to tinker with my toys.
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

AdeV

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #173 on: June 14, 2017, 12:38:22 PM »

For many years I ran a mixture of engine oil and detergent in my Vehicles cooling system.

I was basically trying to make soluble oil and seemed to achieve that. 
I worked. Never had any rust or corrosion in that cast iron engine.  <<SNIP>>

Dissolved the oil with the detergent to make a white mix and put it in with a new radiator.  Never had a cooling problem in the 3.5 years I had the car and never saw a speck of rust or scale. and I looked.  Frequently.
Interesting idea... I'm busy exchanging e-mails with one of our local oil suppliers and it seems like they have something synthetic that will do the job BUT at a price. Pity communication is not too good so I can't tell you much more now - I'll probably have to go there when I get time.


I use this stuff on my CNC mill: http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=25_51&products_id=249

I've had the same mix sat in the sump for over 2 years now (occasionally it gets topped up due to evaporative or sprayed-all-over-the-operator losses...), no bio or stink problems at all. It does have some slideway oil floating around in it, but presumably not enough to form a skin (it's the anaerobic microbes which case the bad smells). If you're UK based and want a litre of the stuff to play with, let me know, I've still got some in the barrel.
Cheers!
Ade.
--------------
1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #174 on: June 14, 2017, 01:38:11 PM »
I use this stuff on my CNC mill: http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=25_51&products_id=249

I've had the same mix sat in the sump for over 2 years now (occasionally it gets topped up due to evaporative or sprayed-all-over-the-operator losses...), no bio or stink problems at all. It does have some slideway oil floating around in it, but presumably not enough to form a skin (it's the anaerobic microbes which case the bad smells). If you're UK based and want a litre of the stuff to play with, let me know, I've still got some in the barrel.
I think this is definitely in the right direction of what I have in mind.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm at the other end of the globe... (South Africa)
 
Not sure synthetic was even around back then. If it was, I either hadn't heard of it or certainly couldn't afford it!
I did do it thoroughly and used only new engine oil.  :0)
"Back then" nothing was synthetic... Now everything is and that's why we play with Listers and not Hondas*  ;)
*I do own a couple - lol
They quoted me R90 /liter and at a 95:5 (or 19:1) I'll need roughly 3 liters. (That is R270.00 or 17.55 Pounds or $21.39)

.........Of course the smell of burning rubber back then was a daily occurrence then for most young guys so the smell of fish oil was never too bad.
This story sound so familiar. Now the focus is more on bling and sound systems  ::)

Guess if you were real worried about the odour you could always put some fragrant oil in with it.
Eucalyptus would be very Orstraian for us down under. Maybe Rose petal oil for Californians and sump oil for people who live in Detroit?
For the poms maybe Chamomile or peppermint.  Ed would like his Miscreant scented because he would get a warm fuzzy feeling every time he got a whiff knowing the source thereof that was ground up and distilled.  :0)
;D ;D

Veg oil also dries off and goes plastic like. .......
I use "Boiled Linseed Oil" to protect wood and metal surfaces. I also absolutely love the smell of it. It takes forever to dry properly, but it forms a real good protective layer.

Here is a video of my Fairbanks-Morse ZC208
(Sorry the video is a little dark)
https://youtu.be/9nOrPSNdLd0

I'll have to let you in on a little secret of mine to explain why it looks the way it does: When I rebuild this engine (from scrap), I wanted to retain some of it's old world looks and not paint and polish it like I've done with the Lister. It had to look a bit like it was still in it's working clothes, but it still had to look nice. Unfortunately the original paint was all gone and it was rusted red... so I cleaned it and started experimenting. I ended up polishing the whole engine with Zebo Stove Polish (Terrible black stuff!! Tip: wear gloves). After that I sponged the whole engine and the engine cart with Boiled Linseed Oil. Absolutely nobody has been able to explain the finish on it  ;)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 01:46:04 PM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

dieselspanner

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #175 on: June 14, 2017, 02:17:19 PM »
A few years back I worked on a dumb barge that had been built in WWll

When I asked how come it was was so well preserved I was told that each 'void space' had 40 gallons of fish oil dropped in it, and was then  flooded with fresh (rather than salt) water.
As it was pumped dry the fish oil, laying on top, coated everything, everywhere. The last bit to be pumped out was the oil and this was put into the next compartment and the process repeated.

Cheap and cheerful with little labour cost.

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

Tom

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #176 on: June 14, 2017, 06:58:04 PM »
I have a 3M body shutz gun for spraying fender wells with undercoat. This spray gun has a 3' (one meter for you metric folks) flexible plastic sprayer extension with sprayers all around the tip. I used this extension and a can of 3M rust preventative to spray all the interior compartments of my '74 IH Scout in 2001. This has completely stopped all the rust, well in those areas anyway.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #177 on: June 17, 2017, 05:12:50 PM »
.......In my day ( just after the advent of electricity) You had a 6 or an 8. I was poor and only had a 6 but I was a little bit smart, I did the suspension and the brakes which back then was cheaper than engine mods.  Most guys could get me in a straight line but put in just one bend and I had them every time.
I was born in the wrong era.... I could choose between a 4, a 4 or a 4...  >:(

I love watching the YT vids with idiots in hot cars showing off in crowds and putting the things into poles or ditches or brink walls. Unfortunately there are also plenty where they put them into other cars and people. No one I knew EVER did that because somehow as stupid as we were, we weren't that dam stupid.
Ha! If I'm not watching engine or tractor videos I also end up at the sideways Mustangs.  ;D

Of course there are still those that Drive V8's. Most of the real Dipshits round here Drive Mercedes C63's. It's what all the successful Drug dealers with any Cred drive and there are no shortage of the filthy scum round here let me tell you. The kingpins seem to Drive G wagons......
Of course nothing wrong with those cars, but almost none of the owners appreciates them. It's all about image. Down here we have other scum driving these cars, but lets leave that discussion for another day. I'm in a good mood at the moment and things can get ugly if I start...

I love that look on your engine! That's serious hard arse old skool.
I am wanting to do a bit of decorative metal work soon. I'll have a go at finishing the work the same way. I pointed that look out to my wife on a candelabra thing we saw in a shop on the weekend and she loves it too.  Now I know how to do it and can score some brownie points. :0)
Thanks. I had to mention before - the gloss finish you see in the video fades to a matt, and adds to the old look.
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #178 on: June 17, 2017, 05:47:23 PM »
Rewinding a couple of months, and finishing off those small unfinished jobs:

(Swivel design and manufacturing on page 7)
The weight of the engine and the snug fit of the swivel assembly makes the keeper plate almost unnecessary, but if I was ever to transport the engine, the danger and possibility of the swivel parting becomes a possibility.

Trolley swivel pin protruding:


I machined a recessed keeper washer from a piece of plate I had lying around:


Feeling much better now. No chance of the swivel jumping out. I'm very pleased with the smoothness and rigidity of the swivel. I have to maneuver the trolley down a small ramp to get it out of the garage, and even under a cross axle situation there is no binding.


Next: Air cleaner.
(Air cleaner installation, page 9)

This is what the initial installation looked like:
Of course the pre-cleaner can never function properly orientated like this...


I was very fortunate to get a 76mm Donaldson elbow to mount the pre-cleaner right way up!


and lastly...
the "anti-splash" tank.
That was the original drum's lid. I cut of the tabs and put a hole in the center. Banged it into the drum and rubberized it in position.
I am now able to increase the water level and no splashes! The drum is still able to breathe to let steam off to get rid of excess heat.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 09:33:55 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

dieselgman

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #179 on: June 17, 2017, 07:50:42 PM »
Good looking work! Thanks for the pictures!  :)

dieselgman
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