Author Topic: Another 6/1 Restoration  (Read 121302 times)

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2015, 01:14:31 PM »
I just looked up the drawing that Lister made of a Start-O-Matic CS1 installed in a masonary shed.
The cooling tank, also in the shed, is even bigger than a standard "200 litre" drum.
The diameter is similar at 23 inches, but the height is 47 inches, compared to normal drum at 34.5 inches.
It gives a capacity approaching 320 litres, about a third greater. That's about 70 imperial gallons, or 84 US gallons.

It seems to be the factory recommedation, but there are some puzzling aspects.
Like, isn't there such a thing as over-cooling?
And, where does the heat go, when it does eventually build up?
There's no fan, and it's inside an enclosed place, presumably (for silence).

Like the exhaust system, I'm baffled.

Jordan
Hi Jordan.
The big tank starts to make sense if one looks at the run times 38ac mentioned. I'll see if I can go and have a look at the 50L drum tomorrow. If it's suitable for use as a cooling tank I'll try it. For powering the house, loading of the engine will be intermittent, so we'll see if i'ts got enough cooling capacity.
Over cooling: for sure. That's why the thermostat was such a great invention! Without a thermostat one will have to monitor the engine temperature and manually restrict the water flow.
The tank's surface will radiate a great amount of heat - I've seen copper cooling tanks before on stationary engines. Imagine that.... but the biggest heat shedding device is the evaporation of the hot water. On the hopper cooled engines the water is SUPPOSED to boil to get rid of the heat - hence the reason one should never add any anti-freeze/anti-boil in a hopper cooled engine. .

Nice looking engine!  ;D  Anybody got a pic of the type of cast iron radiator you are talking about? 
Is this like the old room warming radiators?
Thank you!

TxBlacksmith....here is a link to a vid from 2010. shows George B's simple set-up with a cast iron radiator. |My radiator has about double this amount of fins (9) so should work fine.   http://www.utterpower.com/new-videos-on-the-way-heres-the-pumphouse-in-hd/

Dieselsmoker.........In South Africa, you are indeed far away from a Home Depot. Here in Canada, the HD stores do not carry that spring either, so I had a friend in the U.S.  buy and send one to me. Perhaps someone on the forum who lives in the U.S. would send you one. They most definately work.

Cheers,
Hugh
I've never been keen on a radiator's looks but THAT looks GREAT!!
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Tom

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2015, 06:04:00 PM »
Jordan, my CS6/1 is setup with a cooling tank made from a 40 gal electric water heater tank. Even with a thermostat installed on the engine a valve needed to be installed on the lower hose to prevent gulping which caused large temp swings while the tank was warming up. Once the valve is set the temp regulates perfectly in all conditions (at least the ones I've encountered). I believe you will find a valve in the lower hose of most tank cooled Lister installations.

Once the tank is warm a massive heat is dissipated via evaporation and if necessary boiling. I've never seen my tank boil, but it will evaporate several inches of water in a hard day's use. Now my system circulates the cooling water through the floor of the house, but the tank is still in the circuit and used for cooling in the summer when the heat is not needed in the house.

Here's a pic of the install before the valve was added. The valve replaced the coupling in the lower hose.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

32 coupe

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2015, 09:12:12 PM »
I just bought a Honda radiator with a 12" electric fan with shipping on Ebay for $60.00

They work great for the Lister type engines and I have this setup on 2 engines currently.

Keeps the antifreeze to a minimum and an easy setup.

I went to the local auto parts store and looked through the radiator hoses untill
I found sections I could use.

I run 195 degree thermostat and an adjustable temperature fan switch I purchased
at the auto parts store. The switch is a generic one.

I don't known if this will help but it makes a simple, fool proof system.

Just my 2 cents. ....

Gary


Metro 6/1 turning a ST 7.5 KW gen head
Changfa 1115 turning a ST 15 KW gen head
Ashwamegh 2/25
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mike90045

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #93 on: August 21, 2015, 06:20:36 AM »
To install the thermostat, most engines will accept a NAPA thermostat #253 & you may have to grind out the housing to accept it.  Took me about 3 days and 2 stones to get my head and housing ground out using a cordless drill.   And on the thermostat, you drill a 1/16 hole in the flapper near the top edge to let it seep a bit and help purge air.  Then I stacked a bunch of gaskets up to fill in the gaps.  Gasket for stacking on the thermostat water fitting   NAPA 1038-ST

I use a 25 gal gas tank (scrap) with a couple fittings for radiator hoses, and let it thermosiphon.  Works well, at about 2,600w load,  the tank gets to 180F on a cool rainy day in 90 minutes,

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #94 on: August 23, 2015, 04:55:13 PM »
Thanks for all the inputs and suggestions from everybody. It's good to learn from other's experience.

So I got the 50 Liter drum. Looks a lot more portable!


I marked off the holes and opened them up to accept the brass fittings. Surface ground clean in preparation for silver solder.


25mm Brass fitting:


Fitting is a nice snug fit in the hole:


Engine running with cooling!!
I dug in my "box of pipes" and found perfectly suitable radiator hoses I replaced years ago on a VW I had.


The Lister water valve was a solid piece of rust. It took some heat and 4 lbs hammer to get it apart. After cleaning I lapped the valve with some valve lapping paste.
The drum and valve was trial assembled onto the engine to see how (and if) it works. After sorting the engine framework, the valve and the tank will go green.

I'm toying with the idea to mount the alternator underneath the cooling tank to reduce the footprint of the genset. Mounting it this close to the engine will slightly reduce the contact area the belt will have on the alternator pulley, but will it be significant enough to worry about?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 12:49:09 PM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

M61hops

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #95 on: August 23, 2015, 07:05:06 PM »
Hi Dieselsmoker.  It will probably work OK to move the gen head closer to the drive flywheel.  I'd put it as close as you want but keep in mind that you might want to add an idler wheel to increase contact.  Or you could use the idler to tension the belt?  Smaller footprint could be a good thing!
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Hugh Conway

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #96 on: August 23, 2015, 09:26:04 PM »
@Dieselsmoker
"I'm toying with the idea to mount the alternator underneath the cooling tank to reduce the footprint of the genset. Mounting it this close to the engine will slightly reduce the contact area the belt will have on the alternator pulley, but will it be significant enough to worry about?"

M61hops has a good idea with the idler. On the down side, it does add something else to malfunction. I have my gen on the exhaust side with good clearance. Even so, the belt chirps whith a heavy load and damp air. (my gen set is outside, but under a roof, in the Pacific N.W.  Everything gets damp in winter.

I would be reluctant to put a tank of water above my generator. Creates a potential problem. A leaky hose or.......could be expensive.

Also, there is the issue of restricting  access to the inspection cover on that side of the engine.

Unless you really need the room, IMHO, better to keep the generator in its original Dursley position on the exhaust side of the engine.

Nice work there, looks great!

Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #97 on: January 10, 2016, 06:56:43 PM »
Hi Guys.
It's been a while since I did any work on my project. Life got in the way but I need to get going again.

There are a couple of things still on my restoration to-do list.
First task: Build a trolley so I can move this thing! I've started cutting the material over the weekend. I'll post some pics as soon as it starts taking shape.

The other day I was standing in the bathroom brushing my teeth when I saw right in front of me the best container ever for topping up the Diesel when I occasionally start the engine.
LISTERine for a fresh smelling exhaust!  :laugh: :laugh:
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 01:22:31 PM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

TxBlacksmith

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #98 on: January 10, 2016, 10:09:41 PM »
A nice close up pic of the water valve would be nice... :D

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #99 on: February 02, 2016, 11:02:18 AM »
BUILDING THE TROLLEY
The biggest mission (for me anyway) when building a cart / trolley is to get wheels... And NOTHING one can buy of the shelve works visually...
When I did the restoration on the ZC208 Fairbanks-Morse a few years back I had the same problem. I designed my signature wheels and did most of the work after hours at the factory where I work. This time round access to the machines have become almost impossible. Private jobs in the factory was stopped because certain individuals abused the privilege...  I printed out my drawings and had the wheels made by a fabrication shop. (I just turned the hubs and supplied them to be welded in).

Like I said: These are my "signature wheels", but since you are such a friendly crowd I'll share my drawings. Hope it can help someone -- even if it just serves as a template for your own custom designs.
I saved the *.pdf files on Mediafire. DO NOT USE THE ON-LINE VIEWER. The viewer for some reason messes around with the drawing... -> Download the file and then open it.  



http://www.mediafire.com/download/1448jmaro5fmcfs/Teardrop_Spoke_Wheel_-_Manufacturing.PDF

http://www.mediafire.com/download/dbl6hvlnd9bqu8h/Teardrop_Spokes.PDF

http://www.mediafire.com/download/j3613jg3ebkk1n2/Teardrop_Spokes_Wheel.PDF

Turning the Hubs:


Delivered hubs to Fab shop. Wheels tacked up already:


All done and looking good!


Pic showing the hub welded in position.
(This is the inside of the wheel.)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 09:21:30 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2016, 10:19:06 AM »
Wheels done, now the steering and the frame.
I decided to go with a single pivot for the steering. Pity I didn't go for steerable wheels instead but I'm not changing it now.

Fixed pivot point:


Male and female bits:


How it goes together. The pivot will rotate around both the large and small diameters. There should be very little play in the pivot.


Bolt holes tapped to fix the plate to the front axle.


Fabrication started. This is going to be a VERY heavy trolley...
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

EdDee

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #101 on: February 03, 2016, 02:55:55 PM »
Hi Smoker,

Possibly fit a heavy compression spring on the pivot bolt to take up the small amount of slack in the 5th wheel... That will stop it rattling on the power stroke... Don't forget a grease nipple or five as well... Also on the wheel hubs....

Looking VERY smart indeed....!

Cheerz
Ed
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #102 on: February 03, 2016, 04:33:56 PM »
Hi Smoker,

Possibly fit a heavy compression spring on the pivot bolt to take up the small amount of slack in the 5th wheel... That will stop it rattling on the power stroke... Don't forget a grease nipple or five as well... Also on the wheel hubs....

Looking VERY smart indeed....!

Cheerz
Ed

Thanks for the kind words Ed!
I thought of shimming the swivel to take out as much of the axial play as I can, but I like the plan you have with the spring. I'll see If I can find something that'll work. Maybe a BIG spring washer...?
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

EdDee

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #103 on: February 03, 2016, 09:15:52 PM »
Hey DS,

Naah.... You got a lathe, custom valve spring top type thingy....  With a valve spring to suit... Gotta look the Lister part for sure...

Cheers
Ed

PS... if you are close to the reef, look for some old coco pan wheels... might save u some work on your next project...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 09:19:43 PM by EdDee »
12/1 750RPM/9HP Roid 5kVA- WMO Disposal/Electricity & Hot Water Gen
12/1 650RPM/8HP Roid 4.5kVa - Demon Dino
Chinese Yanmar - Silent Runner with AutoStart
Classic Komatsu 1963 Dozer/Fergusson 35 Gold Belly ...
Bikes,Cars,Gunsmithing & Paintball...Oh yes, a 5Ha open air Workshop to play in!

Dieselsmoker

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Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2016, 03:04:10 PM »
I have a little more progress with the trolley build. I'ts taking quite a bit of time to make all the parts and weld them in place.

All joints are cut out like this, except some corners whith a 45 degree joints.


Fully welded - both sides.


Alternator trial fitted. I joined a piece of rope to closely resemble a standard B-Section V-belt length I want to use.


I told myself that I'll take a break after this project. I've put in many many hours of hard labor in a busy schedule and it's actually frustrated me at times. But now I'm faced with a dilemma.... This Lister is very heavy and hard to move by hand.... So I'm going to have to look for a small Holder tractor or something to move the Lister around with  ;D ;D
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project