Puppeteer

Author Topic: Another 6/1 Restoration  (Read 72047 times)

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2015, 09:01:46 AM »
Yes, the spec for end float is .005-.010.

Boy am I glad I made the sleeve bearing thrust faces a bit thicker otherwise I would have ended up with very little room for adjustment... There are two paper gaskets behind each housing. Not sure how thick they are though. I have to take the housings off again to put the felt rings in when they arrive through the mail one day...  >:(, and then I'll measure the gaskets. The rest of my weekend I spend cleaning all the fasteners and I have 90% of the gaskets made. I think I only have the barrel- and water jacket cover gaskets left to make.

Busy cleaning the crank. Painted with Glyptal.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 11:13:38 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #61 on: July 05, 2015, 07:04:58 PM »
Been moving slow the last couple of weeks. The kitchen's new ceiling is almost in, so in about two weeks time this job should pic up momentum again.

I received my parts from SEP. Took almost 5 weeks to get it. I'm not saying a word about the postal system  :-X I'm just glad I got it.
Breather plate
Taper pins
Felt seals for crank
Gudgeon pin


Crank in. New felt seals fitted.


I'm a little disappointed with the taper pins. They are way oversize. In this picture the pins are hammered in hard.


Here you can see the pins just-just go through the shaft.


Getting other pins is not an option, so I'll have to ream the holes a bit. What is the taper used for these pins?
 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 11:45:08 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3141
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #62 on: July 05, 2015, 07:24:05 PM »
Those should be #6 taper pins and are readily available from us or from McMaster Carr in the USA. The proper taper reamer is also available.  If you purchased Indian product, then sizing data is unreliable - as might be expected.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 07:26:41 PM by dieselgman »
Ford Powerstroke, Caterpillar 3304, Cummins M11, Too many Listers to count...

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #63 on: July 05, 2015, 07:45:02 PM »
Those should be #6 taper pins and are readily available from us or from McMaster Carr in the USA. The proper taper reamer is also available.  If you purchased Indian product, then sizing data is unreliable - as might be expected.

dieselgman

Yip... proudly Indian.

Looks like a 1/4" per FT taper?

Update:
It is a 1/4" per FT or 1:48 taper.
Reamer is 3/8" nominal diameter.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 12:51:02 PM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2015, 07:56:02 PM »
Quick update: New sleeve is in.
I was at first concerned about the sleeve creeping down the barrel, but there was already a plan in place. This is probably common practice, but for those who have not seen this themselves, I put this picture up. The bore was machined oversize to accept the sleeve, but not all the way through. If you look closely you can see the line where the lead stops and the parallel bore starts.


Top of the barrel skimmed.
Nice hone pattern and zero taper. Impressive workmanship in my opinion.


« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 11:48:42 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2015, 08:03:24 PM »
Got the reamer! 3/8"  (1:48)


Put my ratchet tapping tool on the reamer. Added some cutting oil and done! Nice to have the right tools.  8)


The pins still needs to be driven in hard and then I'll grind the excess away to prevent interference with the cam follower.


The original dowels were peened, but I don't think that is really necessary. They'll never come loose.
       
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 11:51:54 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3141
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2015, 10:43:57 PM »
That i.p. cam lobe looks to be pretty rough and pitted... is it just the surface needing polishing? Or do you need a new lobe?

Looks like you have those pins fitting nicely now! Good work!

dieselgman
Ford Powerstroke, Caterpillar 3304, Cummins M11, Too many Listers to count...

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2015, 03:02:41 PM »
That i.p. cam lobe looks to be pretty rough and pitted... is it just the surface needing polishing? Or do you need a new lobe?

Looks like you have those pins fitting nicely now! Good work!

dieselgman

Hi.
Thanks. This camshaft assembly is the single item I've spend the most time on during this rebuild. Great to see it this close to being fitted back into the engine block to make it do some work again.
The lobe is a little pitted, but the surface is mostly smooth so it should be okay. - I'll polish it up and see how it turns out.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 11:52:43 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2015, 08:53:21 PM »
Oil pump overall:
I took some extra pictures for someone elsewhere on the forum who had trouble figuring out how to remove the seal.

Pump stripped:


Original seal in position:


I pushed the screwdriver in under the metal collar and levered it upwards until flush with the pump body.


The last bit was done by increasing the lever's travel with a wooden block:


New seal:


New seal in greased up and driven in position:


Pump trial fitted:
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 11:58:20 AM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

TxBlacksmith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2015, 10:14:57 PM »
Nicely done!  ;) What did you clean your brass parts with?

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2015, 06:45:18 PM »
Nicely done!  ;) What did you clean your brass parts with?

Thanks.
Almost all the cleaning as you see it here was done mechanically. I have an assortment of rotary and hand wire brushes I use. The pump body I soaked in Lacquer thinners for a while before brushing it and the paint came off real easy. I don't think I'll spend any more time polishing the brass, but it might be a good idea to put some clear coat on to preserve the shiny finish.
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2015, 07:45:46 PM »
This weekend I assembled some finished parts to the engine and then I tackled the broken fuel filter cover.

Compulsory: DC Welding machine and nickel welding rods.


Weld prep - Ground in and then dressed with a hand file. Never good practice to weld cast iron on a ground surface. The prep could have been a little deeper, but my plan was to braze the cover before I realized my brazing rods were finished. This is a low stress joint so I wasn't too concerned to get full penetration.


Welding in progress.


All done and freshly painted:


 ;D ;D ;D It's starting to look like an engine!!!! ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 12:39:22 PM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2015, 07:20:57 PM »
It was time to make a plan with the Diesel filter. I saw elsewhere on the forum that cartridge filters are the way to go. Thanks for the tip! I dug around in the garage and found some suitable material to make my own version.

Parts made up:


Assembled:


The injector pipe was a real mess and I managed to break it where it had a braze joint. I paid our local Diesel service centre a visit (Supreme Diesel Injection), and I was given a used pipe of the correct length. The owner was very interested and impressed with the project and he was only too glad to help.



Pipe Fitted:



The last bit of the assembly went so well that the tappets, timing and everything else was adjusted and in place in a very short time. I assembled the engine with the old rings (minus the bottom oil ring that I broke). Before I knew it, there the engine was standing ------ ready to start! I had no intention of starting it, but when I reached this point I simply couldn't help myself to try!
Second attempt cranking it this happened:

https://youtu.be/iPHZ_23Kmew

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

WHAT AN AWESOME FEELING!!!!!

« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 12:43:16 PM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

Dieselsmoker

  • If your genset fails, remeber Ps 119:105 - Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Self-Certified Professional Engine Lover
    • View Profile
    • Get your spares back!
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2015, 08:24:26 PM »
A can of oil? (or is it a can of worms?)
I put some serious effort into sourcing non-detergent engine oil, but it tuned out fruitless. I got bombarded with questions of why I want THAT oil and then reasons why I shouldn't be using it - all of them uneducated opinions of course. The product is simply not available any longer off the shelve. Apparently engine oil additive packages that exclude detergent is not produced any longer. We have two companies in town who blend their own products from base oils, and the one really tried to help me out, but I'm not tooo sure if I can trust his advice. As the head of the R&D department he had to go research way to many questions I threw at him...  

These are my options at this point in time:
They have a low end Petrol / Diesel oil.  API SF/CF. (This is the only product they have with viscosity SAE 30)
The additive package consists of: Extreme Pressure, Anti Wear, Corrosion Inhibitor, Anti-Oxidant and Detergent (low detergent).

To get away from the detergent I can use an oil blended for certain hydraulic systems. It is also a blend of Base 1 oils.
The additive package consists of: Corrosion Inhibitor, Anti-Oxidant and some Anti-Wear.
Viscosity is ISO 100 which is closely equivalent to SAE 30.

I walked away with the detergent oil... I wish I could determine what the API grade of the non-engine oil was. I'm afraid to sacrifice anti-wear properties for the sake of losing the detergent. At first I'll do frequent oil changes and maybe then look into adding an oil filter?

There is also a gear oil with EP that should perform quite well, but I'm afraid that the sulfur and phosphorous EP additives will eat away at the brass oil pump and camshaft bush. The other problem with non-engine oils are the lack of, or low concentration of CI and AO...

Am I worrying about the oil specification too much? In theory it is quite clear what the lubricant requirements and reasons therefore are, but can anyone testify of actual experience (good or bad)?

« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 09:58:25 PM by Dieselsmoker »
1963 Lister 6/1 genset - Restored
1942 Fairbanks-Morse ZC-208 - Restored
1945 Ruston & Hornsby PB 3HP - To be restored
1954 John Deere 40-S - Current project

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2737
    • View Profile
Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2015, 01:07:56 AM »
Beautiful job on the restoration!  Sounds very sweet.

Some of us Listeroid owners have been using detergent oils and have thousands of hours without troubles, including myself. 

I was having trouble with spalling of the upper big connecting bearing initially, but this was solved by going to a solid upper bearing (no oil grooves) and a hollow dipper.  The problem may have just been the typical Rajkot bearing quality and nothing more.