Author Topic: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!  (Read 7298 times)

dieselspanner

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Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« on: April 05, 2015, 08:49:42 PM »
Hi All

I'm now down to the last of cleaning and prep on my CS 3 - 6/1 bitza, who ever did the last lot of bodging has put almost new valves in a well wrecked head, not so much valve recession as they've decided to leave the head entirely.

I've read (on here) conflicting stories, what are the current thoughts on replacement seats and valve guides?

I'd like like to have seats that fit 'in metric' if this is possible, I'm in the Pyrenees, 'footric' is a dark art up here and it's £60 each way carriage to my favourite workshop in the UK.

I've also discovered a stamping on 1 flywheel 3 / 1, does this mean my flywheels will be unsuitable for the larger (4 1/2") iron piston?

Can they be re balanced or must I replace them?

Once again thanks in advance,

Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

listard-jp2

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 04:51:48 PM »
I see no reason why it would not be possible for a competent machine shop in France to install a pair of seat inserts into your cylinder head.

The only points to watch out for are:

For best results, fit new guides before the seat inserts are fitted, as the valve seat insert machine will use a pilot fitted to the guide, and worn guides will effect accurate placement of the seat insert with respect to the valve guide bore.

The valve seat depth in the cylinder head, with the seat insert fitted the valve should be between 0.055" to 0.100" below the joint face. if you aim for as close to 0.055" then you will have ample material left on those seat inserts for future valve seat recutting.

The seat insert selected for the job will need to match the port size, to small on the i/d and it can restrict flow, to large on the o/d and it may weaken the cylinder head, leading to cracking.

After fitting the valve seat inserts, they should be blended into the ports wherever possible to remove any sharp corners, to improve flow.

When cutting the valve seat sealing face keep the seat width narrow, as the valve spring pressure on CS engine is not great.

Its quite possible that if you have 3-1 flywheels, and a 6-1 piston. Then the balance of the engine will be effected, this will depend upon the weight difference between the 3-1 piston and 6-1 piston. Have you also changed the connecting rod, as the 3-1 rod has a narrower small end bush.

This link gives a good description of the balancing process for a single cylinder engine: http://modelenginenews.org/etw/etw_bal/p2.html
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 12:38:33 PM by listard-jp2 »

dieselspanner

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 11:50:09 AM »
Thanks for that, Listard

I'll bear it all in mind. Once the new valve guides arrive I wander off the the nearest / only machine shop I've found and get busy with my (rough as guts) French

I think the conrod is a 6/1, it fits the piston and the big end, well it did 'til the grit someone bunged in the sump tore the main bearing to shreds!

Looking at the drawings I have, have found on the web, I can't make up my mindif they're push fit or screw in, a little more help required!!

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

dieselgman

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2015, 12:31:21 PM »
The inlet guide is pressed into the head. The exhaust guide is threaded. You will know immediately by looking at the top of the guide, the exhaust has a hex head and the inlet is simply round.

dieselgman
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dieselspanner

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2015, 02:02:19 PM »
Cheers DieselG

Looks like I was as wrong as I was right, A great thing is a little knowledge!!

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

dieselspanner

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 04:20:55 PM »
Having got both guides out - I sheared the head off the exhaust, which didn't help! - and cleaned up the head, I've found that both the inlet and exhaust are threaded, even though the inlet was 'push fit'

Is this standard or have I got a head from somewhere else?

There's been so much bodging that nothing would surprise me!

Thanks in advance

Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

dieselgman

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2015, 04:46:50 PM »
This is what your guides should look like on a standard Dursley Lister: exhaust guide is threaded into the head, inlet is pressed into the head.



dieselgman
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dieselspanner

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2015, 06:55:20 PM »
Thanks for that,

That's what I have, only the threaded one is in bits!

However, both ports in the head are threaded, it's a 7 stud head, and I'll get it rebuilt, I just wondered if it was off something else other than a CS.

Cheers Stef
Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

broncodriver99

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 08:59:45 PM »
However, both ports in the head are threaded, it's a 7 stud head, and I'll get it rebuilt, I just wondered if it was off something else other than a CS.

Cheers Stef

Could it be an Indian variation so that it would work on either side of a twin?

dieselspanner

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2015, 09:31:59 PM »
Hi Bronco

A good point!

it's an old 'original' head, well unless it's been antiqued by the same crew that do the 'old' pistols you can buy in the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul!!

I've little Lister experience but it's quite possible the twin cylinder heads were built 'ambidextrous'

The JP motors were also 4 1/2" bore OHV .............

Cheers Stef

Tighten 'til it strips, weld nut to chassis, peen stud, adjust with angle grinder.

somian

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Re: Yet more CS help and advice required, please!
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2015, 10:04:15 PM »
I believe dieselspanner is correct, due to the heads on twins being "handed", both valve guide holes in the heads are threaded, but one thread is normally not used