Puppeteer

Author Topic: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange  (Read 6918 times)

Gippslander

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« on: February 16, 2015, 07:15:37 AM »
There are always a few original CS Listers for sale over here but the supply of original Dursley spares has dried up .

My question is :

Do the Indian made parts fit a original Dursley CS ?   I refer to the Piston, rings, rod bearings, valves , con rod and other bits

Maybe somebody could make up a list of Indian made parts that do swap over to a Dursley CS

Mike
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2015, 08:58:43 AM »
Very good question Mike!

The interchange for many parts (from specific suppliers) is an exact match... we have tried our best to achieve 100% interchange. I do not have a listing per se at the present time. We do have 100% of the parts to build up any 6/1 or 8/1 clone and around a dozen or so original Dursleys in the shop to be able to do a piece-by-piece comparison. Yet another project to put in my queue!  :laugh:

It might be easier to start making a listing of what is known to be different... For instance, I know that the Bosch MICO replacement fuel pumps use a different size banjo fuel line fitting than the original Bryce pumps used... and the Bosch pump shafts are not drilled for fitting the excess fuel cam/adjuster. This does not mean that they cannot be fitted, just that minor modifications must be made. In some cases, the flywheel forgings and crankshafts might vary somewhat in keyway placements but might have to be replaced as matched sets. There are typically no splash-guard "windage" trays in the clone upper oil sumps.

I think maybe Butch would be an excellent person to chime in here as he handles a lot of the originals and also has experience with the clones.

As a practical matter, I think that all the major wear parts are readily available and no major issues. This would include all bearings and everything on the top end. When ordering replacements, a person could easily specify that supplied parts must fit a certain OEM plant without conflict.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 09:36:51 AM by dieselgman »
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2324
    • View Profile
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 01:37:59 PM »
Tough question to answer without getting  very long winded about it. SOme are made to fit the CS type, some are made to fit the India changes. This another reson why I like the clone engines verses the Listeroids.

We have very little old stock Lister parts for the CS types here in the states. I see some advertised from time to time in Europe and for the prices I see I get disinterested quickly.  I find the Indian wear parts to be very satisfactory, most approaching excellent in quality. I use them in my CS Lister builds without hesitation. Rod and main bearings, rings, valves, pistons, fuel injection equipment quality is right up there. 
As Gary said you have to be careful with parts as there are many versions of the engine built from an exact  clone of the CS Lister to engines that bear little resemblance other than they have two flywheels, run slow and look the same from a distance.  There is a fellow over there in OZ  that imports and services Indian engines (or used to be?)  Ozroids or something like that? You might check in with him.
  We are lucky here in the states that Gary has invested the time and effort to import clones and parts. I have also bought from Central maine Diesel when I needed wet liner blocks, liners of 5 stud cylinder heads.

If dealing with India or anywhere else you need to be specific in your requests, Gary  mentioned the fuel pump differance, fuel lines can be had that adapt.


Pistons- can be iron or aluminum in several bore sizes plus common oversized. Some use the standard CS ring configurations, some do not. There are also pistons for the direct injection  'roids.

Ring sets- Anything you desire can be had from India or here you can buy direct from Hastings

Cylinders- CS type  blocks without liners are available that are also the same externally with the bolt on doors on each side. There are also blocks that are OEM externally and take a wet liner.

Con rods- are all the same in my experience.

Rod bearings- available in many undersized and in both babbitt and bi-metal types.

Valve guides- I am not certain if India makes the screw in exhaust guide? In the past I have installed liners in the original  guides.  India also messes up the fit sometimes as there are both 7/16" OEM  and 11MM India versions.

Valves- all will work in a CS type but my experiance with them is they will be 11MM stems and be a loose fit in the OEM guide even if not worn.

Crankshafts-differ from bushing main to TRBs.The bushing manin cranks will fit a CS


Collector and horder of about anything diesel

Gippslander

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 02:09:33 AM »
very interesting. I did learn a great deal from that  ;)
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

Hugh Conway

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
    • View Profile
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 03:30:59 AM »
Re: the screw-in exhaust valve guides. They are available as Indian made. I got one from Jim Calder (justliveoffgrid.com), and I will bet that Gary @ DES can supply them as well.
Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2324
    • View Profile
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2015, 12:22:17 PM »
Thats good to know Hugh, screwing a new guide in the head certainly is a lot quicker repair than fitting a liner.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

listard-jp2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
    • View Profile
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2015, 06:52:45 PM »


It might be easier to start making a listing of what is known to be different... For instance, I know that the Bosch MICO replacement fuel pumps use a different size banjo fuel line fitting than the original Bryce pumps used... and the Bosch pump shafts are not drilled for fitting the excess fuel cam/adjuster.

Thats not strictly true, whilst all CAV pumps have M18x1.5 banjo bolt threaded holes, a very small amount of late Bryce pumps had M14x1.5 banjo bolt threaded hole. Another Bryce modification to cheapen up production was to delete the bleed screw (this style of pump is almost identical to the MICO Bosch version, though there are still some internal differences).

Also if you are prepared to source the control rack as a seperate entity, it will come with the hole drilled in the end, to allow the use of the excess fuel trip device.

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 06:58:52 PM »
Have you ever sourced the individual pump pieces and been able to specify the hole in the shafts?

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2324
    • View Profile
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 01:50:13 AM »
One of the problems we have is parts like the rack are simply not available OEM here, at least anywhere I can find.  I can have two 2 MICO Bosch pumps in my hands for less money than one rack from the well know fuel injection engineers in GB, not because they are crooks but because we pay 2x due to deflated dollar against the GBP plus air freight plus customs. Even if we load up an order with parts we hope to sell they are still VERY expensive by the time they are on our shelves.
 I buy the MICO pumps disassemble them and place the elements and delivery valves in safe keeping along with a few other parts and modify the racks for both CS Lister and Bamford Z applications and toss the castings in a big box because it doesn't seem right to toss them in the junk.  I suppose that MICO Bosch would run a batch of racks if somebody woould please order a 20 lifetime supply of them,  ;D
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

listard-jp2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
    • View Profile
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 05:21:42 AM »
Have you ever sourced the individual pump pieces and been able to specify the hole in the shafts?

Yes, and yes. Due to minimum order quantities, I still have 10 control racks that are surplus to my requirements, anyone interested?

Hugh Conway

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
    • View Profile
Re: Listeroid and Lister parts exchange
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 05:52:27 PM »
oops, wrong thread, moved it.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 05:56:17 PM by Hugh Conway »
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project