Author Topic: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???  (Read 14831 times)

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2015, 07:07:14 AM »
I'm adding 100:1 2 stroke oil to the fuel, which in the "States" has lowered lubricity , since the sulfur and other goodies was taken out.  California diesel is now closer to jet fuel (no lubricity) than diesel.   And the fuel pump was making a groaning noise till I got some nice bio-diesel into it, but the only local vendor is out of business and I can only get pump diesel.  BD-20 is avaib at a card-loc pump station, but it's a pain to get, and has road tax, so I do the pain next door and get red diesel, save $1 gal road tax, and add some 2-stroke oil.

I don't think it is coming from a sticky pump plunger, does not seem to be from that area, and it appears to vary with load.  I'm resigned to pulling the head when the weather clears, and after I get a calibrated injector, and we'll see if it's carbon in there, or if I get to keep looking.

Every time I look at the weather forecast
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=95490
they've added an inch of rain.  So we are up to over 8 inches, 6" in the first 2 days, and then 2 more in the next 2 days.  On flat land, it would be nothing, but in the mountains, we get some great storm surges  :-\   I have a 48" culvert that I have never seen more than 18" of water in it, that FILLED and was over the road in the last 4" storm.
Water and fuel tanks are full, vehicles are staged along the roads, pulled the spillway boards, and opened the 4" mid-drain in the pond, so I should have enough freeboard to not overtop the berm.  And woe to the weather forecaster if it's an "alarmist" forecast, and not realistic, because I'm dumping a lot of water tonight on their say-so, in a drought.

Quinnf

  • Rest in peace
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 645
    • View Profile
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2015, 05:41:42 PM »
Are you sure it's not from a loose gib key?  When you hit the fuel shutoff valve, or compression release, does the clank go away?  It might be that you have clearance between the gib key and the keyway in the crankshaft and/or the keyway in the flywheel.  I had that problem with my Ashwamegh, and after measuring the width of the gib key, and the keyways, found there was a total of 0.029" mismatch.  On every power stroke the crankshaft would slip and fetch up against the key, even though the key was tight.  Made a clank that sounded like it was coming from the middle of the crankcase, so I initially thought it was rod knock.  

I inserted brass shims between the sides of the key and the keyways, which took care of the problem.  That might be one reason why the Indians insert gib keys using sledgehammers.  

And send us some of your rain.  It looks like another dry year down South.  We had only 5" last year. 

Quinn




« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 05:45:02 PM by Quinnf »
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2015, 06:17:40 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's not gib/flywheel.  Ran 90 min this AM, and it's quite responsive to load and water injection.   I guess my injector is goobered up, and when I find a shop (Bill Binns?) that can set the pop pressure, I'll take the new and old ones in.  And the ring tone is not the same as the flywheel-wrench test.

So far, I've only scraped carbon off with my fingernail.  Any solvent to be run through injector to clean it's internals ? I suppose the shop knows how to tweak them?

In the IDI heads, is there enough space to get a borescope down the injector and look at the chamber, or is the cavity too small  ?  I'm thinking of the harbor freight borescope/LCD viewer .

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2015, 06:36:59 PM »
Biodiesel is the best cleaner to run through your pump and injector.

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2015, 10:47:26 PM »
I agree- but veggie oil works great for cleaning injector parts, too.  24 hrs and all the carbon/varnish softens up comes right off.  I rebuilt my MB 300D injectors, matching pop pressures with a homebuilt grease gun pop tester.  The only trouble was that a year later all the grease gun seals are shot, since I used veggie oil for pop testing, too. 

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2015, 07:16:20 AM »
I now have 2 blessed injectors.  One was the original, beautiful spray, and the spare, was a couple hundred PSI higher and the tech said it will drop quickly with some break-in and his opinion was not to mess with it.  He though that pump timing was something to look as, as he thinks the injectors are golden.

I cleaned the carbon crud off the injector, purged the hydraulic test fluid out, and stated it up. (Tech said to purge the hydraulic fluid as it's bad for engine, but I know some folks have run/mixed it for long times) 

If nothing else, I can now prime a fuel system and have it fire on the first effort.

I did look down the injector port and just saw blackness.

I may have to drill my intake for a water nozzle, since that seems to be keeping the clank at bay. 

So, for now, it's the hand sprayer, and wait for the engine build thread to cover pump timing.

Gippslander

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2015, 10:10:22 AM »
I wonder what Lister in the UK specified as the time in hours of use before a decoke is needed. 100 hours seems to be a short time and I cannot imagine the UK company admitting to it
Gippsland is in the S.E. corner of mainland Australia

Combustor

  • Combustor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
    • View Profile
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2015, 02:59:19 PM »
             Haven't got the book near at present but I seem to recall the Lister 8/1 and VA (aircooled 8/1) were recommended for a 1000 hour maintenance interval  when such tasks as decoke, check valves, lap if needed, set clearance, check injector spray pattern, wash out crankcase, were listed for attention.
             On the other hand, many old Listers on station bores etc. would have had an oil change annually, and no other attention unless they actually refused to start, Surprisingly, many of these saw up to 40,000 hours with only an injector service and valve grind or two, and maybe a ring set if they were in dust.
            Combustor.
Toys include- Lister CS 8/1, Lister VA SOM plant and some Aussie engines.
   "Old iron in the Outback" Kimberley, West Australia.

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2015, 03:08:09 PM »
+1 on the 1,000 hour decarb service...

From the Lister manual:

ENGINE SHOULD NOT BE RUN MORE THAN 1,000 HOURS WITHOUT DECARBONISING.

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2015, 01:43:42 AM »
Are there any sources for the copper Injector Seal washer ?   Any crossover # to Cat or any other diesels ?    I've mucked up mine, will consume the one spare in the morning, but want to have an extra on hand.   McMasterCarr has some that could be filed down, but nothing drop-in.
 Engine started fine this AM, but at shutdown, it was blowing gunk out the injector hole.  Everything was down tight, so I either have a flake of something in the seal, or got a ding in the washer.

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2015, 01:48:26 AM »
The injector washers are included in our gasket sets, also could be sourced from generic auto parts suppliers I believe.

I also heard that Harbor Freight had some inexpensive copper washer kits that had some to fit.

If your injector port (and seat) is clean, you might reclaim an old copper washer by careful cleaning and annealing (moderate heating) to soften it up for re-use.

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

38ac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2324
    • View Profile
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2015, 02:08:39 PM »
Mike, It's been a while since I had to use one but there is a washer in the HF copper washer assortment that either is a drop in fit or just needs the center hole adjusted.
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2015, 03:04:15 PM »
Some newbies might not realize that copper is the opposite of steel-  you soften work-hardened copper by heating it and then quenching it fast in water.  This is why soldered connections to copper are sometimes problematic- it will harden the wire near the connector, making more likely to break from vibration.

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: clank clank - I don't think it's supposed to do that ???
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2015, 03:10:54 PM »
Thanks for that Bruce! I forgot to mention the quenching part of the annealing process! My bad!  :embarassed:

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations