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Author Topic: I'm back!  (Read 3808 times)

George A

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I'm back!
« on: January 25, 2015, 07:55:13 PM »
After several attempts, our wonderful moderator was able to get me reinstated.....which was a pretty good trick considering I haven't been on the site since 2006!

My name is George, 65 years old, retired and I own a Listeroid which I purchased through George Breckenridge (utterpower) and his friend Joel back in 2005. On delivery, I spun the engine over while still bolted to its crate bottom and it fired......once. It turned out to have a badly jammed up injection pump, probably from sitting on the docks in India, and George was gracious enough to rebuild it for me at a very nominal cost. While I was waiting for the pump to be returned I went through the engine checking this and that. One item that bothered me was the "less than optimal" fuel filter. Not only was its construction a bit crude, it had no air bleed! I removed it and substituted a NAPA inline filter. I found no evidence of sand or other problems. I removed the head and located TDC, then made a brass pointer that indicated the correct position on the flywheel, checked the "squish" with a pellet of lead, reinstalled the head, set the valves and reassembled everything. When the pump arrived I installed it and spun the engine over. Nothing. I rechecked everything ten times, spill timed it so many times I've become an expert, bothered everyone on this forum with trouble shooting questions for weeks and finally pushed it into a corner of the garage in disgust. I gave up. Diesels may be simple but obviously they're not for me.

That was back in 2006. Since I collect other stationary engines, less than a month ago I decided to convert the engine to gasoline and spark ignition so at least I'd have some kind of running engine. I pulled the tarp off and began planning how to mill a spacer for the head when the NAPA fuel filter I installed so many years ago caught my eye. Through the opaque plastic I could see an air bubble the size of a goldfish bowl! No. It couldn't be that simple! I removed the filter and installed an ordinary sediment bowl under the fuel tank with copper line to the injection pump. I turned on the fuel, spun it up to speed and dropped the compression release. It came to life with a vengeance, hopping around like a 700lb. kangaroo......I forgot to check the governor. I finally got the cut off lever up and it came to a stop leaving me standing there sweaty and breathless. It lived!

Things have changed greatly in the last few weeks. A military surplus 2500 watt generator is now mounted, driven by a serpentine belt and a crankshaft pulley from a Chevy 350 V-8 (I machined an adapter rather than buy one). It now chugs along merrily at just over 600 rpm and generates power, the only problem being a sluggish governor......and that brings me to the reason for this long winded post.

I've already made the utterpower change in the governor linkage, oversize pins to replace the sloppy Indian ones and one other change that I think may be of value to the members here. The biggest problem with the governor linkage is the sliding yoke at the injector pump. This is actually a form of the old "Scotch yoke" used during the early days of steam in England and was actually used to drive engine flywheels until it became obvious that a connecting rod was a better choice, so why not use a connecting rod of sorts?

Research told me that a #50 roller chain master link has a pin diameter very close to ideal. I drilled the fuel rack hole to .001" larger than the roller link pin and that took care of one end. I removed the yoke entirely and replaced it with a machined bit of round stock, on top of which is an "L" shaped piece of 1/4" steel, the top of which has another hole to match the other roller link pin. This hole was not drilled until I had the link positioned exactly level with the rack halfway out. This "L" shape moves the connection away from the injection pump exactly 5/8"....the center to center distance of the roller link pins. The round stock is inserted into the yoke hole and JB Weld holds it in place (this can be removed by heating if changes are needed).

In operation, the governor linkage moves as usual, but the troublesome yoke is now replaced by a nice, smoothly operating link that changes the vertical to horizontal with no slop, binding or lost motion.

Now, here's the rub. The first question anyone would ask is "How well does it work?". It should work just fine, but the governor also has some other issues inside the engine apparently and I have to address those next. I'll have the generator control box finished and installed within the next few days and I can give it some thorough testing and evaluation. At that point I'll post results, along with pictures of the link assembly I described as I believe the idea has merit. Oh, I have to get a cooling system set up too instead of the garden hose I'm using now. A thermostat is in the plans also.

I love the sound this engine makes, probably more so than any of my other engines. Life is good!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 08:02:05 PM by George A »
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

dieselgman

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Re: I'm back!
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2015, 08:04:37 PM »
George, a picture of your linkage modifications would be in order here...


dieselgman
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George A

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Re: I'm back!
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 08:46:21 PM »
Absolutely agree and I'll get them on here, probably in a different post, within a couple of days. Got some health issues these days that prevent me from being as active as I'd like.
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

Tom

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Re: I'm back!
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 01:02:53 AM »
Hi George, I have one of  George B's early engines too.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

George A

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Re: I'm back!
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 04:20:59 AM »
Hi Tom, glad to meet you. I forgot to mention that the engine is a Vidhata and except for the fuel filter, the general quality seems fairly decent compared to some of the horror stories I've heard during that era.
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.

Hugh Conway

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Re: I'm back!
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 09:51:21 PM »
Hello George: Glad you finally got your 6/1 running.
Re the governer, See this link  to a thread in the WOK.  http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=6976.0
I too did all the external gov mod tricks and got things down to a 4Hz spread. Then another member (Horsepoor) suggested a different gov spring. I tried it. Achieved 1Hz difference from between no load and full load. After about 1 1/2 years and some 400 hours later, still get the same result.
It is a very inexpensive fix, you might want to try. Let us know of your result.

Here's the opener from that above linked thread;
Quote from Horsepoor:
"Home Depot stock number is 759 541 and comes in a pack of two different size springs for a total of four. The sizes are: 7/16 in X 2 inch X .062 in with a safe working load of 18 lbs - these are the two you don't want to use. In the same package is: 9/16 in X 3 in X .054 in with a safe working load of 9.55 lbs - this one worked well for me out of the box. So for a couple dollars you may have a repeatable solution. Remember, where the India guy decided to drill the stud hole for the other end of the spring is probably random but I hope it will be close."

Springs are;
Everbilt 7/16 in. x 2 in. and 9/16 in. x 3 in. Zinc Plated Extension Springs 4Pk. Also found on Ebay.

 Horsepoor achieved +/- 1.5 Hz using the 9/16 x 3 in. spring on his listeroid. After completely rebuilding the governor linkage to eliminate slop, I got it down to +/- 4HZ no-load/load. I bought a package of springs recommended by Horsepoor on Ebay (not available at Home Depot Canada)

My results with JKSON 6/1 and Utterpower PMG with the 3 inch spring;

No load 60.4 Hz
3150 Watt load (measured with Kill-a-Watt meters on both legs) 59.4 Hz

YMMV, but this was a repeatable trial using 3 different make listeroids.

Cheers,
Hugh
JKson 6/1  (Utterpower PMG ) Off-grid
Lister 6/1 Start-O-Matic engine......running with PMG
1978 Royal Enfield (glutton for punishment by Indian iron)
1963 BMW R-27 project

George A

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Re: I'm back!
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 10:16:22 PM »
Hi Hugh......you know, I remember reading that some time back but couldn't find it again. Thanks for the link My son lives a lot closer to a Home Depot than I do, so I'll have him pick up a set for me and try them.
I've joined "the dark side"....if it has a spark plug, it's obsolete technology.