Electric start conversion for a Lister CS engine.

[kevin w]

I am looking for a Electric start conversion for a Lister CS engine, or a good way to make my own. I don't like the starters with the wheel on it as much as the real setup. Any ideas are appreciated thanks.

[millman56]

You will need to have or know someone with some degree of engineering and fabricating capability to do this conversion, using the flywheel and starter motor from a 2.5 litre+ diesel engine.
When the parts have been obtained check the rotation of the starter and  plan the location, bearing in mind the starter motor will have to be mounted outboard of the Lister flywheels and not get in the way of hand starting etc.    The flywheel will require boring and facing to accept a shouldered taper-lock  boss capable of accepting a 2" bore bush, the boss to flywheel connection should be a pinned / bolted shrink fit to avoid welding to the cast iron flywheel.
A well braced bracket to hold the starter will need fabricating, using as a minimum,  3/8" plate, this will then need to be securely fitted to the engines mounting frame ensuring the correct meshing  of the pinion to gear ring, this is not ultra critical but results in tight/ noisy operation if out of limits. 
Using Ford Transit and Rover car parts, to date I`ve converted a 38-4, 2. CS 1. CD and 1. CE   to electric start at minimal parts cost.

Mark.

[DirtbikePilot]

See this thread for one idea and possible source.

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=6790.0

[mike90045]

When it fricking rains, it pours.  We're expecting an inch in the next 24 hours.   My back's been tweaked out for a while, and I went to use the electric start via key switch on the listeroid, and the dang key has sawed it's way through the tumblers and jammed the cylinder.  OK, so I don't have alternator or care if the amp-meter and idiot light works, and installed a pushbutton switch instead, and it works just fine.

came into the house and found the fridge has pee'd itself, (I'm assuming plugged evaporator drain) and had to crawl around on the floor to mop up the water off the hardwood.  Service tech in the area Friday.  Don't know if I can mop often enough to stay ahead or not.  Can't pretzel myself yet, or I'd have a go at clearing it out.

[LowGear]

Mike:

Just drill a couple of holes in the floor.  I like the wine cork drill bit myself.  I can usually finish the bottle by the time I have the holes drilled.

Casey

Oh Yeah,  I thought the above link looked smart and easy.

[Hugh Conway]

Mike:

Just drill a couple of holes in the floor.  I like the wine cork drill bit myself.  I can usually finish the bottle by the time I have the holes drilled.

Casey

Oh Yeah,  I thought the above link looked smart and easy.

What Casey said.........I usually don't mix wine and power tools, so leave off with the drill, just go with the wine.....tomorrow is Friday after all.
If you must, though, wine cork is 7/8" :-)

And Mike is correct, Selmaswap's friction starter works great, easy to mount, robust. I bought one, it's been in use for about a year now. I use a pick handle with a thumb operated switch recessed into the end to engage the roller. Been using a tired car battery to power the starter, and it still has plenty of steam  to turn over the 6/1 with a PMG belted on to it. The PMG adds a lot of additional rotating resistance via the magnets, unlike, say, an ST.
It is a good, simple and inexpensive starter, though won't work from a remote location, you have to be directly involved to hold the roller against the flywheel. Otherwise, two thumbs up.
Cheers,
Hugh

[BruceM]

The ST generator heads could be run by electronics as if it were a brushless DC motor by adding some hall effect sensors.  I think it could make a dandy SOM-like starter.  It would take a boost converter to crank up 12V to 240VDC or so, and a high current H-bridge driver to drive the stator windings, leaving the rotor windings for just a permanent magnet.  It is a serious power/motor electronics design effort, in part because of the higher voltages, even though the principle is no different than any other brushless DC motor drive electronics.  Just don't want to sound like one of those idiotic "idea men" who don't appreciate the sweat and blood and time in making something real.

It would be a fun project that would certain sell well to many of us old iron enthusiasts, but I'm afraid our numbers are WAY too small to make it commercially viable.  

My Listeroid is auto remote start; I just didn't feel the need for the load sensing bit.  My setup is all pneumatic, even the starter and engine room ventilation doors, since my 6/1 also does duty as my wood shop air compressor (all air powered shop).

[millman56]

A scrap car or van contains the main items required to convert a CS engine to electric start,  the addition of a couple of 12v 25 amp relays, a fuel shut off solenoid and an off-on-start switch makes a robust  electric start- stop system capable of being operated at 300` distance via a 3 core  lightweight cable.                                      Engine controllers are widely available which offer 2 wire remote start- stop plus  shutdown on fault conditions, maybe these could be modified to sense when an appliance is switched on or off and act as an SOM controller.

My  Lister CD generator has the starter and flywheel from a 2.0 litre diesel Rover 420 (Honda Accord), this setup  spins the CD very quickly
 and effortlessly.

Mark.

[dieselgman]

Yes, as far as control system is concerned, all it takes is a simple relay or PLC controller combo. Woodward makes pretty robust 12volt solenoids for the purpose.

dieselgman

[mike90045]

Finally got the pics up for the Metro brand of electric start.   Heavy plate on the far side crank bearing, holds the starter.  The far side flywheel has spokes with lugs cast in, for the ring gear to bolt to.  Wheel also has grooves and a built-in faint wobble.  I had to correct the wobble with 10 mil pipe tape to make it into a "Crowned Pulley" and now the belt tracks perfectly on the wheel and ST pulley.
Link to album: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10203575720812400.1073741830.1196643274&type=1&l=c29bce317a
 (it's supposed to work OK)

[BruceM]

Looks like a nice starter, Mike.  Can it start with compression?

[veggie]

Here's my semi-startomatic using a combination starter/generator from a golf cart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbcbuygYJdM

Veggie

[BruceM]

Sweet starter/generator setup Veggie. Quiet and powerful!

[LowGear]

Wow Veggie,

It'll take me a week to recover from your engine area.  I'm always mystified that people that do things perfectly also get a lot done.  Is there a correlation?  Why can't I do anything at this level of competence?  Did anyone try to save you when you were a child? 

I'm Lister green with envy.

Casey

[mike90045]

Looks like a nice starter, Mike.  Can it start with compression?

Tried it this AM, and with the engine backed up to the closed valves, it did pick up enough speed (@ 42F am temperature) to roll through compression and start up.

Tomorrow, I'll try it closer to the compression stroke and see how much of a running start it needs.  It's a pretty beefy starter, with about 8" of battery cable, so it should have a lot of torque.