Author Topic: EPA double standard  (Read 8304 times)

StrawHat

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EPA double standard
« on: August 31, 2014, 09:49:07 AM »
This is sort of a pet peeve of mine. It seems that many popular stores are selling plenty of gasoline generators, and stand alone gas utility engines almost all imported, that have very little emissions control on them. No catalytic converters, very simple carburetors, and they all struggle to get thermal efficiencies of just 10%!. :o So how can anyone with any common sense excuse the ban of importing engines that get over three times the fuel economy of those gas burners? The 30+% thermal efficient fuel economy of the both Listers and Listeroids alone make up a very substantial emissions control measure. The best way to cut pollution is to burn less fuel to begin with!

Seems to me this violates the equal treatment or equality standards of our US constitution. If any of the rest of the engine enthusiasts out there happen to be good attorneys, you should jump on that note and intervene in this travesty.


On a side note while I'm here:
Hmmmm.... Just curios, the spell checker in this forum doesn't know the words Lister, or Listeroid! ::)

In Texas, we tend to talk about Aggie's when we encounter these sorts of things. ;D

broncodriver99

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 04:05:45 PM »
I agree it is ridiculous but for some reason the EPA is very hard on diesel. I think a lot of it stems from the older engines that produce a lot of particulate and smoke.


Seems to me this violates the equal treatment or equality standards of our US constitution. If any of the rest of the engine enthusiasts out there happen to be good attorneys, you should jump on that note and intervene in this travesty.

I hope you are kidding.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 04:15:38 PM by broncodriver99 »

carlb23

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2014, 04:49:48 PM »
Picking a fight the EPA will only get you audited by the IRS for the rest of your life or at least for the next few years.

ronmar

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2014, 06:29:46 PM »
Well they do have to keep up demand for their ethanol enhanced short shelf life "Approved" fuel...  You know the one that causes you to burn MORE to complete the same task than you normally would using a non ethanol fuel.  Never understood how burning more fuel was good for the environment.  Good for someone's bottom line, not good for the environment. 

It does appear that they have kind of had it in for the diesel for quite a while despite their demonstrated efficiencies...
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32 coupe

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 07:37:38 PM »
Take a look at what GM, Standard Oil, Firestone and another dozen or so companies did to
the rail industry in this country and you will have a better idea of how it all works....

Big business,  big business,  big business. ...need I say more ?

Gary


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buickanddeere

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2014, 11:31:32 PM »
  You can see diesel smoke but can't see a dirty gasser.
  Perception is more important than reality.

dieselgman

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 12:04:35 AM »
Once an issue becomes a political football, what does reality have to do with it?   :(

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broncodriver99

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2014, 08:25:22 AM »
I couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately our market is so large that products designed to pacify our "leaders" are thrust upon not only us but an un-wanting rest of the world for economic reasons. If we could manage to shut up our State of California and their friend New York a vast majority of these purely bureaucratic nonsensical "green" initiatives would very quickly dissipate like the smoke they are being blown up some politicians arse. We have legislation in effect phasing out incandescent bulbs as well. It started a few years ago and now anything over 40 watts is only available as a CFL unless you pay 4 times the price for a "rough service" bulb. Apparently our leaders think it better to import cheaply made, mercury laden bulbs, with a really short lifespan due to shite manufacturing in order to save a few watts of electricity. Makes sense right?

I really wish our EPA would get back to focusing on illegal dumping and using some common sense.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 08:31:09 AM by broncodriver99 »

broncodriver99

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 08:27:51 AM »
.

millman56

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 11:06:35 AM »
Spare a thought for us Brits,   we`ve got it from both sides,  a steady stream of green diktats, directives, laws and costs from the unwanted and unelected EU,  plus a  governmental enthusiasm for any  greenwash ideas emanating from over the pond.                                                                                                                        It would seem to me that the clear winners in the great green fiasco are the self serving and self perpetuating bureaucrats administering the laws.

Mark.

ses

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 12:01:06 PM »
I defer to those with more knowledge than I...

I have heard the US exports all of its good (low sulfur) diesel and thus maybe the heightened concern for emissions (as we import other diesel) and greater difficulty in getting smaller diesel vehicles to market?

True or false or...

LowGear

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 05:35:35 PM »
Geez, I wish I were a libertarian;  I could read Ann Rand and not get tickly throat.  At the same time I have given up on trying to understand the US relationship with Diesel.  This contempt is a bottom up phenomenon. 

Speaking of the throat: We mustn't forget the Deep One - "Follow the money."

Cheers, 

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StrawHat

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 05:08:32 AM »
What beats me is that the main left wing political party that drives the EPA is pulling the rug out from under some of it biggest supporters, namely the trucking industry and all of those transportation unions. Those bureaucrats seem to have about as good a sense of direction as a heard of rabbits scurrying in the headlights of a car on the highway. Just like those rabbits, they also eat and destroy everything in their path too.

I remember when they started doing the so called science studies on the diesel exhaust. Bear in mind that scientific studies are bought and have been for over twenty five years. They have perfected the art of making the science say what ever they pay for, according to what they say, or leave out, in those studies. Given the proper profit margin, you could have a scientific study done to prove Holy water caused cancer if that's the answer you needed to market your pet product.

The soot from diesel is chiefly carbon that easily falls out of the atmosphere. Carbon is inert and causes no ecologic harm. Any NOx emissions are going to be proportional to the amount of fuel burned. diesels are the big winners on fuel economy.

Another thing most people don't know is that the overall thermal efficiency of the electric grid itself only averages 35%. Even though the generating system typically used averages well over 90%, sometimes as high as 96%, most of it is lost in distribution. A Lister or Listeroid can equal the average overall grid efficiency, you can likely coax over 40% out of some of these engines with good tuning. As a matter of fact, utilizing modern technology, thermal efficiencies of "point of Use" electric generation can be had at over 80%. This won't be any reciprocating engine however. At some point in the future, with diminishing oil reserves and increasing oil prices, the grid is going to come full circle, and point of use generation will have to dominate driven by by absolute necessity.

All fellow Americans should call and lobby their Congressmen and Federal lawmakers. Congress created that out of control monster the EPA, and they can also abolish that agency, or at least put a good iron chain leash on it before it eats us all alive.

cujet

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Re: EPA double standard
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2014, 12:33:57 PM »
Just a minor note: Many of the imported generators, including those 2hp 2 stroke ones employ catalytic converters inside the muffler. The emission control data plate will often say "type of emission control", then be followed by a code for the type employed. It won't say Catalytic.

Often, it's a tiny, and very inexpensive, catalyst inside the muffler. Here is a pic.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/attachments/muff3-jpg.324440/
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