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Author Topic: My CS 6/1 "baby's"  (Read 33110 times)

BruceM

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2014, 05:31:58 AM »
Hi Pedro,
I'm glad you found the pictures and can see how my crude version of the Rumely tractor's exhaust- induced draft system could be adapted to suit your boat project.  If you can come up with a design to ventilate your engine compartment with the induced draft, as well as cooling the radiator, you'll have very nice and simple cooling system.

I think your proposed 6" size will be adequate for the cooling function and perhaps for venting the engine compartment as well.  Necking down the exhaust slightly at the very end of the pipe will increase exhaust velocity and thus the induced flow, only if you need it. 

Best Wishes,
Bruce




Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2014, 09:16:11 AM »
Hi Bruce,
thanks for your explanations, I am very glad to get this first hand info's from you  ;)

Great idea to set everything up so that the engine compartment is vented out too, perfect, cannot get better anymore.

Necking the exhaust end: How much would you suggest on a 2" pipe ?

What height for the radiator would you suggest ?
My engine will be just under the deck level, so the radiator could be just a bit higher mounted, lets say 4".
Would that be adequate to get the thermo syphonic system going ?

Thanks again for your input and helping me solving my cooling system.
Kindest regards and have a nice day
Pedro
LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria

Blue

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2014, 01:55:06 PM »
A radiator will keep it nice and warm down below and in a warm environment it turns into hot down below. A simple centrifugal pump and keel cooling would be my choice. Get that heat out of there.

Good luck

Blue
Owned; Lister ST1, ST2, JP4, LD1 & 2x Blackstone ERS8. Petter AA1, AC2 and still up for it !!!

Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2014, 02:36:19 PM »
Hi Blue,
Yeah, keel cooling would be my second choice.
I will try the radiator first and if I get enough draft the heat in the engine room should not be too hot.
Engine room is totally separated from the living quarters.
Keel cooling is very vulnerable, especially in shallow rivers or when the boat falls dry, the sea is full of junk too, costs a lot and steal me power from my engine.
Have a great day
Peter
LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria

BruceM

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2014, 03:50:03 PM »
Hi Pedro.
For a thermosiphon flow (no pump) radiator, the radiator needs to be above the engine.  As long as the pipes for both engine coolant inlet and outlet are sloping upwards, and the top of the radiator is at least a foot above the engine, you should be OK.  The flow rate will be higher if the radiator is higher.  Larger pipe will allow more flow with less vertical.  You also need an expansion tank above the radiator, and a path for air bubbles from the highest point of the radiator to escape, as absorbed air will be released from the coolant as it is heated.  I ran a small hose from a soldered hose barb at the highest point on the radiator into the top of the reservoir tank.  A single hose from the bottom of the expansion tank to the highest point of the radiator could allow both filling and air escape, if it is larger- say 3/4". 

My coolant system is not pressurized, though you can do that with a thermosiphon system.  I have a thermostat fitted into the engine outlet to regulate coolant flow/temperature.









Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2014, 01:02:55 AM »
Hi Bruce,
Thank you very much for your detailed explanations.
Everything clear now  ;)
Great Idea to run two hoses to the expansion tank, so the radiator can be totally sealed and be filled from the expansion tank.

When my older "Lady" is rebuild I will set up a test system, let it run for long time under max. load and see how it goes.
Must find an easy way to put load on her, probably an old alternator will do the job.

Thanks again and enjoy your day
Pedro

LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria

Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2014, 11:25:33 AM »
Another great day with my baby  :)

Day three was for sourcing a machine shop and wood for building a work table, nothing done on the engine.

Day four another clean up day, but more in details.

Still a messy job but I was very pleased with the outcome .

First job was to polish the crankshaft to get the main bearings and the oil thrower rings off.
Everything was smooth and the bearings side off in ease …


 Left side is the original, right side already polished

The bearing surface on the crankshaft is in pristine condition.


 Con-rod bearings are gone … below are the oil thrower rings, which are located beside the main bearing

 

Next job was to remove the camshaft, which had a seized end collar.


 I had to grind off a bit from the collar and tried to get the pin out, NO way, so I drilled a hole in the pin and out he comes
Have to replace the collar I guess, or maybe just use a bolt and nut.

 

Next job was to clean out the Change Over Valve, which was straight forward with no hassles at all.



Next job was freeing the seized fuel pump.


 I soaked it for two days in diesel and BINGO, all the parts starting moving after a bit of pressing and pushing and praying

To my surprise, there was still diesel fuel inside.

 

Cleaning up piston and removing seized piston rings


Oil scraper and one piston ring come of in one piece, the rest has to be broken out …



Heyah, have a working table now, so I do not have to crawl on the floor anymore  ;)

Sadly I could not open the injector , the brass nut just give way and is rounded now, so I change to a new one, the easy way.

Will try later to open it, after soaking in Acetone/TFT mixture for a few days.

The seized governor weighs and the sleeve was quite a hassle, but finally I got everything moving again

This was the first part of my day, all parts are ready to go back into my baby
 

Now lets have a look at the cylinder and cylinder head.

The cylinder head was straight forward, just cleaning the water system out, which was not too bad and remove the carbon.

Valve seats are gone, I have to build new valve seats in and also install new valves and valve springs.

 

The cylinder itself was another story …



This baby was never cleaned in her entire live, that’s for sure.
So lets go for it …

Incredible what is stacked inside there …




Comes out quite nice ...



Does not look too good, but I think the LISTER can still handle it
Option would be to press a new sleeve in so that I can use the original piston, have to check out how much that would cost me.

 

So this was day four in the rebuilding process and now I have to hunt for spare parts.

I will need the following parts:

Camshaft end collar + pin
Con-rod bearing
Crankshaft bearings
Water inspection cover plates on cylinder
Fuel filter
Exhaust and Air intake flange
Water inlet and outlet flanges
Thermostat
External Oil filter and internal oil filter
Injector complete
Fuel pump (spare)
Both valves + valve springs
A few spring washers, split pins, copper washers …..

 

All in all not so bad and expected.

Next job will be more fun, to put my baby together again.

This has to wait until I got all the needed parts.


Can anybody tell me a good source for Indian parts, would be much appreciated  ;)

I was in contact with Atul from Anand Enterprise www.poweranand.com[/b]]www.poweranand.com and it seems that he is a nice guy and hast good parts too.

Still waiting for George's CD, more than three weeks already, probably the post-horses are a bit tired and it is a loooong way to Asia  ;)

Everybody have a great day
Pedro

LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria

Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2014, 01:16:22 PM »
Cooling system ...

This are just the first ideas about my induced draft - thermosiphon radiator cooling system and I guess this could work out quite well.

If anybody has a better solution to offer, I have wide open ears  ;)



                 

LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria

BruceM

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2014, 03:43:49 PM »
Your photos and 3d modeling are fantastic. You've got induced draft figured out well.  

Without knowing more about the engine compartment and deck above design here are my suggestions:

I would make a sheet metal fairing so that ALL air must go through the radiator.  

I'd try to enclose the engine compartment except for low air inlet(s) (bilge or scuppers ?) and the induced draft outlet through the radiator.  The engine compartment enclosure  could be in part removable or folding; it is just to direct the air flow.   The hood approach could work fine if extended low enough and easily removable for service access.  It would be nice though if the engine compartment could by clever design eliminate the need for the hood so that access was unimpaired.  As long as air is coming in from the bilge and flowing through the engine compartment and out the top, it seems that a hood might not be necessary.  

Your expansion/fill reservoir will have to be above the radiator- somehow.  The radiator could be off to the side/top of the compartment and mounted vertically if need be.  You can duct the air flow to your convenience.; it can go around corners, sideways, even downwards.

From your previous question that I forgot to answer:
I tapered my 2'' exhaust to 1 1/4'' at the outlet.  It is probably unnecessary to do this.  I did not experiment to optimize air flow as it was more than adequate on the first try.  Your proposed exhaust is short enough that it can be 1 1/2''.  

Bruce
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 04:02:23 PM by BruceM »

Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2014, 01:08:49 AM »
Hi Bruce,
thanks again for all your inputs  ;)

It is a bit difficult to design the optimal system on the computer, I will made final arrangements when my boat is there 1:1.
But the basic idea is there ...
The hood could be made out of metal, or better out of fiber glass (with aluminum foil on the inside), which would last longer in the harsh sea conditions.
Metal seems to rattle all the time, no matter how you try to fix it. ???

I will try to get the exhaust straight up from the engine and mount the radiator a bit side ways from the exhaust, so there will be no restriction in the exhaust flow.
Probably will go for a 8" chimney to get all the hot air out from the engine room.

For the rain-cup I do not know at the moment what I can find here, probably have to make one myself.

  • Could you please send me a picture or a simple sketch from yours, would be great help for me.

This rain-cup has to withstand strong winds and heavy rain downpours without drowning my boat  ;)
I guess a rotating extraction fan could help to get more hot air out from the engine compartment, would work also when the boat is moored and ventilate the engine room 24/7.

Air intake to the bilge will come from a Dorade Vent on the top of the decks-house, that's the safest place on the whole boat, even in a capsize water would not penetrate the boat, because when she goes around, the bilge air outlet will be above water.
So at most a small sip of water could penetrate the engine compartment, which would not hurt at all  ;)

Thanks again for all your help and enjoy your day
Pedro

LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria

BruceM

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2014, 01:54:25 AM »
By rain cup do you mean the cap on the duct for the exhaust and cooling air?

I'm using a standard (for the US) vent cap.  They work well, wind in any direction just causes more suction.  It consists of a wind blocking band of galvanized steel bigger than the duct by about 1 1/2 inches or radius, and with a conical cap above that extends past the band.  Flow is above and below the band.  Chances are you can find the same thing at any heating and ventilation (galvanized ductwork) supplier.  I'll see if I can find a picture; if not I'll take one for you.


Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2014, 04:02:17 AM »
Hi Bruce,
thanks for your vent cap details  ;)
That sounds easy enough and will be easy to find here I guess.

I thought this is an complicated high tech design.
I am always thinking too complicated  ;)

Have a great day
Pedro
LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria

Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2014, 05:31:59 AM »
Coming closer to an easy to build cooling tower   ::)

Hot air from engine room out, water cooling and exhaust out, all in one go, what you can ask more ?

Cover will be removable so it gives me access to the cylinder head too ...

Just have to find a way to get the hot exhaust trough the deck and keep it watertight.
Will probably use an over-sized pipe through the deck in which the exhaust goes out (insulated), covered with an even bigger pipe which act as a cap, should be quite watertight.

Maybe route the exhaust inside the whole assemble, han everything would be nicely sealed up, but this could get pretty hot inside there.

I will come up with something that works, just have to brainstorm a bit  ???

       
LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria

BruceM

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2014, 02:11:29 PM »
The height of the Lister CS plus radiator above for thermosiphon does create an interesting challenge for a boat. 

I like your concept of making the hood removable from above and to provide engine head access from above.

The exhaust inside design is my favorite - no burn risk on deck in rough seas. The airflow inside will keep the pipe at a reasonable temperature.  But simplicity and ease of construction are important too.









Pedro_at_Sea

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Re: My CS 6/1 "baby's"
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2014, 03:08:26 PM »
Hi Bruce,
yeah, I guess the exhaust inside is the way to go.
Simplicity is most important, makes everything easy to maintain and to handle.
Will be a very interesting project, cannot wait to start  ;)
Have a great day
Pedro
LISTER CS 6/1 in my boat, LISTER CS 6/1 rebuild

I am a World-Citizen, I do not belong to any place or region. I claim the right to live and travel on any place on this globe.
                                                    utrinque paratus   ...     ubi panis ibi patria