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Author Topic: Lister in basement  (Read 8442 times)

Listerfever

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Lister in basement
« on: April 19, 2014, 04:45:41 PM »
OK folks. I still have not even started my 8/1 som yet, that I have had over a year. However I'm starting to get excited about making it a home. Has anyone put one in a basement? Is it possible to vent exhaust down, through the wall to a lister pit, then turn up and out ? I'm also considering a daylight basement, so it may just be down to a pit. Any thoughts on the noise level of it running in the basement ?

dieselgman

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2014, 05:14:30 PM »
Basements are OK, except in cases of floods where the emergency equipment will most likely be compromised when needed most, and also the risks of fire and exhaust leakage into the living spaces. You could fire proof the room with sufficient flame and heat barriers, not much can be done about the exhaust leakage issue except to provide for plenty of extra ventilation to the outside. There is no problem venting your exhaust downwards as long as you remember that the exhaust stream will contain both water and sulphur compounds that tend to become corrosive as a mixture. The moisture will condense when the exhaust system cools to the dew point, and then will flow downhill to the lowest point it can find. Good system design will allow a drainage sump at a low point or will be sufficiently insulated to prevent temps dropping to the dew point before opening to the atmosphere. The noise levels will most likely be felt rather than heard... the exhaust note will be gone with a good pit design but the mechanical noise (diesel knock), and effects of the power pulse will remain. Sufficient insulation will take care of most of that but low frequencies will travel in the mass of the building and surrounding ground. These things are thumpers! Could be soothing to some, very annoying to others.

dieselgman
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buickanddeere

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 07:31:11 PM »
CO helps the household take a deep sound sleep for a long time.

dieselgman

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2014, 10:16:44 PM »
CO alarms in the living spaces are a must in such situations, as well as very scrupulous attention to a properly sealed exhaust system with stress relief at vibration points.

dieselgman
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mike90045

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 12:55:58 AM »
so - I'd always thought that diesel exhaust was quite low in CO ?  It certainly is not good to breath, but I think the CO is not the major factor like it is with a gasoline engine.

But the thump will for sure, rattle stuff in the house, it's the power stroke, not the balance (or lack of).

dieselgman

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 01:57:48 AM »
I agree that CO is not the major problem with diesel exhaust... but still a life and death problem with humans in enclosed spaces. So please always err on the side of caution!  :police:

dieselgman
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 02:06:00 AM by dieselgman »
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buickanddeere

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 03:31:32 PM »
so - I'd always thought that diesel exhaust was quite low in CO ?  It certainly is not good to breath, but I think the CO is not the major factor like it is with a gasoline engine.

But the thump will for sure, rattle stuff in the house, it's the power stroke, not the balance (or lack of).

 Low amounts of CO are fatal. Very low amounts contribute to chronic health conditions.
 Many times people just think they are tired, have the flu or something but the they are CO dosed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 03:04:11 AM by buickanddeere »

Listerfever

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 05:38:00 PM »
I'm thinking of putting it in a daylight basement so flooding should not be an issue. I'm a bit of a worrier so there would be one or two CO detectors right by the unit. My main reason for wanting it in the basement is to avoid freezing. This will be at a vacation cabin.(usually vacant) The only other option I can think of is putting it in a shed with 25 gal of antifreeze in the drum. I think I might enjoy the rhythm of the thump, but my bride may not. Maybe I should put more thought into the antifreeze option and build it a shed. A beautiful thing like this needs a name. Sounds like Thumper might be appropriate.  :)

LowGear

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 06:06:04 PM »
I'm putting a new shower in an apartment.  As I rattle bang around I've noticed a couple of sheet rock nails peeking out to see what the Devil is going on.  Here's hoping you've got a place held together with screws.

If you're in co-tenancy; you should go over and tell this extraordinary person that you really appreciate their understanding and compassion.  Even I would have some objections to a massive install without experimentation with the isolation system your planning on using  in the basement - you know - down stairs.  One broken exhaust pipe and you're sleeping alone for way longer than the afternoon.

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dieselgman

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 06:33:35 PM »
The CO detectors/alarms need to be right near your sleeping and living quarters - not of much use in the basement, (unless you were sleeping down there). If your place supports having a generator shed separated from your living areas, that is much preferable.

I do support some installations in Alaska that run emergency generators right inside the main school buildings, but there is a lot of attention to ventilation details and high-quality exhaust systems not likely to ever leak or break.

dieselgman
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Thob

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2014, 02:44:13 AM »
Using a radiator for cooling, with a thermostatic fan, will save you about 24 gallons of antifreeze.  Or use the exhaust to pull air thru the radiator by venting both up a chimney.  Lots of pictures and advice on radiators in the threads on here.  May take a little searching...
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BruceM

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2014, 04:17:34 AM »
An exhaust driven induced draft system could not only cool the radiator, but also provide slightly negative pressure for the basement space, pulling in fresh air through a modest vent (say 6x12). This would help keep (running) engine room fumes from leaking into the adjacent spaces.  The radiator in this case can be quite small due to the good airflow produce- a motorcycle radiator or a large car heater core. 

I use induced draft for my radiator; if I was starting over, I'd do one stack for the exhaust/radiator/ventilation, all powered by the exhaust air.


Tom

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 06:21:03 AM »
The other option is to drain the cooling system before leaving the cabin. There are automatic valves that dump thermal solar collectors that could do the job too.
Tom
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buickanddeere

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2014, 03:08:35 AM »
  A separate but nearby thermally and acoustically insulated shed located down wind. You could run insulated coolant lines  to the living quarters and warm the living quarters with a fan forced hx.
  Placing the engine in the living quarters will only irritate the women folk with noise, dirt and odor.

Tom

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Re: Lister in basement
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2014, 05:27:06 PM »
Good point B&D, one of the successes I claim for our Listeroid installation is that occasionally the wife will ask if the generator is running. She does like that the generator hydronically heats the floors too.
Tom
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