Author Topic: Dual Fuel Petter  (Read 8757 times)

Doug

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Dual Fuel Petter
« on: June 29, 2006, 03:18:20 AM »
Very Intersting picture of a very crude gasifier coupled to Petter.

http://www.oredaorissa.com/Biomass.html

Since they used a Petter and not a Lister I'm thinking that the precupdoes infact could some knock.

Doug

Doug

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2006, 07:29:57 PM »
Lifted this from the gasification archive

"Dear all,
as of June 23rd, 2006, we are operating, 8 hours a day, a small downdraft
WBG15 Ankur gasifier (10 kWel) running, as a self-standing unit thanks to
an automatic feeder, on wood chips. Gas is cleaned and fed into a
FieldMarshal engine. Everything looks nice. Wait for some data and pictures
on our website (now under re-construction).
Our aim is to get acquainted with the wood-chip-gasification process (we
are now thoroughly instrumenting all the gasifier sections) but, once done,
we want to proceed immediately with a mixture of humid green-waste
additioned with clean-coke (or charcoal) mixture, in order to increase
temperatures (lowered by the very lean heat value of waste).
Two questions:
1. Any hints (or word of caution) about any previous experience on green
waste + coal?
2. Could we conceive, by increasing temperatures, to reach an efficient
level of the gas-water shift reaction?
Yours,
Ferruccio Pittaluga
DIMSET/SCL - Savona Combustion Laboratory
University of Genoa, Italy"



Doug

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2006, 04:23:14 AM »
Mr. Pittaluga emailed me back with more information.....

He's using the 114 mm bore by 116 stroke twin Petter rated at 20 kw shaft and 12kw in dual fuel mode. I asked him if he would be willing to share some photos of the Engine and Gasifier, hopefuly he will.

Doug

mobile_bob

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2006, 05:46:31 PM »
Doug:

yes please keep us informed on what you find out
i have been researching dual fuel op for a few years now, and i like the posibilities.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

fattywagonman

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2006, 05:01:14 PM »
When I see gasifier coupled to an IC I always wonder about how to elieviate the need to cool and clean the syngas before if goes into the engine.. because of the ash I would think gasified engine have a shorter life span..  In my mind the real solution  is to change the type of engine... I made  a turbine coupled to a gasifier and to me I think that makes more sense..  I notice the gasifier and engine are bolted to the same cart... I think some Ankur requires some vibration from the engine for the gasifier to operate properly... 

Doug

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2006, 06:50:37 PM »
Yes there are issues with producer gas....

I'm still waiting on the information from the Italian fellow.

Doug

fattywagonman

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2006, 03:40:49 PM »
Hi Doug,
 I think for an IC engine a digester might be a  better option... the gas is clean and cool.. I've read somewhere that termites produce more methane that anything else... ever since then I've wondered if it would be possible to have a colony inside a steel container.. freash air would come in the bottom and methane could exit the top.. and the termites cold do there work in the middle.. It's just a thought but I wonder how far fetched it really is? Anyhow thanks for making the post and keep us posted.. I'll try to dig up some digester and termite info if you don't mind me hijacking the tread a bit..  have a good 4th...

rgroves

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2006, 04:30:38 PM »
Hi Doug,
 I think for an IC engine a digester might be a  better option... the gas is clean and cool.. I've read somewhere that termites produce more methane that anything else... ever since then I've wondered if it would be possible to have a colony inside a steel container.. freash air would come in the bottom and methane could exit the top.. and the termites cold do there work in the middle.. It's just a thought but I wonder how far fetched it really is? Anyhow thanks for making the post and keep us posted.. I'll try to dig up some digester and termite info if you don't mind me hijacking the tread a bit..  have a good 4th...

Apologize in advance for the commercial plug here, but you guys might like to see what I'm getting ready to do with methane.

http://www.flinthillsdiesel.com/BIOGAS.htm
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

kyradawg

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2006, 04:13:49 AM »

Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 03:09:02 AM by kyradawg »

fattywagonman

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2006, 03:16:42 PM »
Hi Russel,
That's a neat idea... Like Darren I'm also interested in the production rates.. I first heard about digester use from a guy from china... He said the gov would provided digester kits for the farmers so they could collect the biogas and use it for cooking and lighting...

rgroves

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2006, 04:03:11 PM »
Hi Russel,
That's a neat idea... Like Darren I'm also interested in the production rates.. I first heard about digester use from a guy from china... He said the gov would provided digester kits for the farmers so they could collect the biogas and use it for cooking and lighting...

I hope to have this one set up in a couple of weeks.  It will be a demo unit and I'll try various feedstocks in it including manure, crop waste and grass clippings. I need to get the excavation done and get the delivery scheduled for the concrete digester body.  Nice thing about using standard precasts is that any concrete pipe dealer can provide everything you need including setting the pipe in the hole.

I'll post here as I have details.  One thing I'd like to do with the biogas is simple injection into the air inlet of a stationary diesel engine.  See how much liquid fuel can be replaced by biogas. 

Best to all

Russell
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

GuyFawkes

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2006, 04:46:03 PM »

I'll post here as I have details.  One thing I'd like to do with the biogas is simple injection into the air inlet of a stationary diesel engine.  See how much liquid fuel can be replaced by biogas. 

Best to all

Russell


1.6 litre engine running at 650 rpm is 325 induction strokes per minute, 520 litres per minute, or roughly half a cubic metre... gonna take a ___big___ digester to directly feed (without separate compression and bunkering) a lister...

FWIW I have seen a digester about that size that ran a honda 50cc 4 stroke engine all day long.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

kyradawg

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2006, 05:01:48 PM »


Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 03:04:57 AM by kyradawg »

mobile_bob

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2006, 09:41:50 PM »
i too am really interested in how these methane generators turn out to work.

i figure if all i got was enough gas to cook with, and run that little hot water tank, it would certainly be a welcome
additioni to my plan.

it would give me one more alternative means of fuel, more options are always welcome.

the more options one has in fuel production, the closer to self sufficiency one can get.

fully realizing that 100% self sufficiency is probably being overly optimistic, but as a goal why not?
who knows perhaps i can get to 75% or 90% or maybe even 95%.... now were talkin :)
(as far as outside fuel is concerned)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

Doug

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Re: Dual Fuel Petter
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2006, 02:07:44 PM »
I know I posted this before but here it is again....

http://www.fluidynenz.250x.com/

No buisness links, but Doug is a hell of nice guy.

Of interets to us was his use of Lister HR3, HR6, JA6, HL4 and the HR3G converted to spark ignition

Doug