Author Topic: Very early 5/1  (Read 6573 times)

brenjud

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Very early 5/1
« on: January 26, 2014, 07:08:21 AM »
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum so please go easy on me if I bring up a subject that has been discussed before. I have recently acquired  a 5/1 dated 1933. It has a few different bits to the normal run of the mill Lister CS. The oil pump is a dual pump with one side blanked off. The fuel filter is different and so is the breather. I have been told that some of the early Listers had carry over parts from the petrol engines. Hence the dual pump, one side for oil and the other to pump petrol. The fuel filter is Bosch and said to be factory fitted. My question to the group is regarding the big end journal and bearing. The lister specs say 2.5 inches. Mine is 2.25 inches and there is no white metal left on the bearing shells therefor need replacing. The journal will need grinding as well so undersize shells will be required. Has anybody come across this before.  ???

listard-jp2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
    • View Profile
Re: Very early 5/1
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2014, 09:42:21 AM »
As you have an early engine, the big end diameter is normally 2.250" STD. These engines (in common with the CS 3-1) use  thick wall white metal lined bronze big end shell bearings.

Lister's soon changed the crankpin diameter to 2.500" , and by reducing the wall thickness of the big end shell bearing, the connecting rod required no changes to the big end bore.

Your only realistic option will be to have your existing big end shell bearings re-metalled with new white metal, and machined to suit your reground crankpin diameter. As the chances of finding this type of CS big end bearing especially in an undersize are very limited (This will only be available as a genuine part, as the Indians never had any dealings with early 5-1 and 3-1 engines, you might like to try Sleeman and Hawken, but it will be a long shot).

Another option to consider would be to change the crankshaft for a later version (as they are interchangeable), but only if money, and originality are not a problem. Depending upon the main bearing condition of your crankshaft this might still be an option to consider. As main bearing journal wear cannot be corrected by undersize grinding, due to the design of the crankshaft.

If your engine is an early one, it will not have a chrome plated bore, and also the cylinder block will have no locating boss on the crankcase end.
Its also quite possible that you have a wet injector (so be sure to drain the cooling water if you ever need to pull the injector), you should also have a feeling pin on the injector.
The early CS engines have alot of unique features not found on the later engines.

brenjud

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Very early 5/1
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 10:33:53 PM »
Thank you for your reply Listard-jp2.

I'd like to keep this engine as original as possible so my first project will be to locate somebody in Oz who can re-white metal my old bearings. I had already considered another crank and this will be my next option. It appears that the big end bearing has overheated due to lack of lubrication. the white metal was plastered up the sides of the crankcase like solder dropping of a soldering iron. The culprit was the absence of a dipper on the conrod.
Your description of my engine is accurate. Fortunately the cylinder is unmarked and the piston and gudgeon in good condition. And yes the injector does have a feeler pin.

brenjud

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Very early 5/1
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 12:17:34 PM »
Further to my original post, I have found somebody to re-metal my original bearing shells. Getting big end ground 20 thou and bearing machined to match. Thanks to the group for your help.

listard-jp2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
    • View Profile
Re: Very early 5/1
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 07:01:33 PM »
That was probably the cheapest option open to you, furthermore if you fit some shims between the con rod and cap before having it bored to finished size, you will have the opportunity to take up any big end slack in years to come.

Finally before you have it re-metalled, take note of the oil groove positions, so you can accurately replicate them.

brenjud

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Very early 5/1
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2014, 12:06:11 PM »
Thank you Listard-jp2.
Good advice re shims. I'll contact my bearing man and suggest this to him.
Just as an aside I have obtained two more 3hp engines, 1934 and 1935. One has different features and most likely the 2.25 big end journal.

This should keep me out of trouble for a while. :laugh:

listard-jp2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
    • View Profile
Re: Very early 5/1
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 07:14:48 PM »
You can buy the shims relatively easily, try your local Listeriod importer http://www.ozlisteroids.com/about.html

If not available this is something you can easily make yourself.

FYI: Later CS3-1 engines were known as 3.5-1 due to an increase in engine speed to bring them in line with 6-1 engines.

The critical items on these engines is the condition of the cylinder bore and piston. As Indian parts are not available as they never had any exposure to this engine, and genuine NOS items are now rare to say the least.

Other unique parts are: valves (smaller head diameter so it will be possible to modify some 6-1 valves), head gasket, injector nozzle, and injector pump element.