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Author Topic: Mr. Lister is back  (Read 14130 times)

Mr Lister

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Mr. Lister is back
« on: June 23, 2006, 08:48:03 AM »
Guys,

I have been absent from this forum for a couple of months, mainly due to a change in my employment circumstances, - I am now very busy.

I was also contacted by the Commercial Director of Lister Petter in the UK, and politely asked to remove all references concerning Listeroid engines from my website, else face legal action. 

I complied, and to be on the safe side, took the whole site down, and put it back in a very reduced form.  Lister Petter UK still take a dim view of these unauthorised Indian engines - even 20 years after the last CS was made!

I have got my waste vegetable oil system working now, and I run my 1951 Lister CS 6hp on filtered WVO every day to heat my water.  I use a blowlamp on the high pressure line to warm the fuel for 2 minutes to allow the engine to start from cold on WVO.

best wishes from the UK


Ken


t19

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2006, 11:31:41 AM »
I would like to hope that is because they will start producing the Lister CS again.  Yeah I know I'm dreaming.  So how to you talk about those Indian copies?
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

GuyFawkes

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2006, 12:01:31 PM »

I was also contacted by the Commercial Director of Lister Petter in the UK, and politely asked to remove all references concerning Listeroid engines from my website, else face legal action. 

What legal action, precisely, and what law, precisely, are you alleging that I am in breach of? would have been my response.

Lister-Petter can't stop you talking about listeroids or "lister type" stuff.

I guarantee their "beef" is that "crap indian product" is being associated with "superior british product" + "good company name"

Legally "Listeroid" and Listeroid are two different words, this, I know, makes it real tough to sell anything related to listeroids.

on the one hand you want to stress it is a copy of a bloody good engine..... and to some extent trade on the Lister rep, which is exactly what Lister will object to

on the other hand you don't want to say "these are cheap and nasty copies and none of the parts are suitable for a Lister"

I looked into this in some depth when thinking about the CHP business, the fact that the engines would have been re-engineered to near as dammit lister standards, and the fact that the engines would have been a integral part of a larger piece of equipment which was in itself marketed in its own right, was enough distance between what I was proposing doing and the Lister reputation.

"Listeroid" and "6/1" are the words that will stick in their craw.

Changfa 6 BHP @ 650 single cylinder is something they can't say anything about.

The Law can be a bitch at times. But if you were listers you could see their point.

Now, who wants to buy some Microsoftoid WindowsXPoid computer operating systems on CD? only 5 bucks a pop?
 
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

mobile_bob

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 02:59:11 PM »
personally i think that after 20 years lister has two options, or rather should be given two optioins

1. reintroduce the engine and sell it, to protect their name and rights to the name, or.

2. shut up

good grief if you arent produceing in that segment of the market, then how on earth can you protect the name and all its variants? let alone a
numeric term such as 6/1?

i dont know what your freedom of speech laws over the pond are, but i wouldnt allow them to dictate shit over here.

i am not sure the microsoftoid analogy is an apples to apples, in that their products are currently in production, being developed and marketed vigorously.

if lister was to do the same, then i would say yes, they have a bitch with anyone knocking them off, useing or trading on their good name and all that.

message to lister:

for god's sake either put up or shut up,,,, make it easy for you and us, just reintroduce the 6/1 ... ok?  :)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

GuyFawkes

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 03:37:18 PM »
personally i think that after 20 years lister has two options, or rather should be given two optioins

1. reintroduce the engine and sell it, to protect their name and rights to the name, or.

2. shut up

good grief if you arent produceing in that segment of the market, then how on earth can you protect the name and all its variants? let alone a
numeric term such as 6/1?

i dont know what your freedom of speech laws over the pond are, but i wouldnt allow them to dictate shit over here.

i am not sure the microsoftoid analogy is an apples to apples, in that their products are currently in production, being developed and marketed vigorously.

if lister was to do the same, then i would say yes, they have a bitch with anyone knocking them off, useing or trading on their good name and all that.

message to lister:

for god's sake either put up or shut up,,,, make it easy for you and us, just reintroduce the 6/1 ... ok?  :)

bob g

Lister _are_ still trading, in many ways they are bigger than they have ever been.

This is just corporate attitude, they are all the same, if you think different try selling a Caterpillaroid or Arrowoid and see how long it takes for the cease and desist letters to start arriving from their lawyers.

Lister are a business, put a decent offer on the table to make a CS 6/1 under licence and provided your product is decent quality and so on and so forth they will be only too pleased to do business with you.

Perhaps I should buy a cadillac and take it to russia and have a clone made in trabant style, paper pulp body panels, funky two stroke V8 motor, and sell it in the states as a Cadillacoid Fletwood Brougham, obviously when it is involved in an accident and disintegrates killing all the occupants none of the press reports will mention the brand name "Cadillac" anywhere... not.

Maybe I can do a passable imitation of Elvis and start selling records as Elvis Presleyr, sure the estate won't mind.

I know lots of people take this kind of "They don't make it anymore so why should they care" attitude, here's one for you.

I got divorced some years ago, you know the point I wanted stressed more than anything else?

When you divorce me, you give up my name.

Suddenly it's different when it's YOUR name or YOUR brand that is concerned.

There is a place in the states caled Mobile yes? pronounced mo-beel. Bound to be a mechanic type there called robert.

SO what if he calls himself "Mobile Bob" (mo-beel bob, not mobile bob) and sets up in business near you doing the same thing as you?

You KNOW he is gonna get _some_ work as a result of your good name, even if you retire tomorrow...
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

t19

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 03:38:31 PM »
Ummm sounds like its time to start a letter writing campaign to raise the LISTER 6/1!!
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

GuyFawkes

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 03:42:21 PM »
I've just emailed bob bell (commercial and engineering director at lister petter) (i'd have rung but they quit a lunchtime on fridays) for the official party line on this subject, watch this space.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

europachris

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 03:47:58 PM »
Wouldn't that be a real kick in the pants if Lister would actually consider bringing back the 6/1?  It was only back in '87 that they quit making them, not that long ago....

Throw a little modern engineering into them to reduce emissions, certify them, and sell.

If they were smart, they'd do like most companies today and global source the components, get most of the castings from China, finish machine and assemble in the UK, and away we go.

Shoot, I'd wager that they likely already have Chinese facilities or at least a partnership of somesort for castings and other bits.  Might not be a big stretch to have the 6/1 fully built there.

I really do wonder what it would take to have Changfa build the 6/1????

Chris

kyradawg

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2006, 04:56:23 PM »


Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 03:45:55 AM by kyradawg »

hotater

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2006, 04:58:52 PM »
When the other side has a lawyer on retainer it'd be stupid to fight on their terms....but I'd be thinking of creative ways to poke them in the eye the VERY first chance I got!!

If they have a beef it's with India, not the customers of Indian goods.  If Lister wants to protect the market they should do it with products, not letters and threats!!

.....I've never wanted a web page before..... ::)
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Halfnuts

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2006, 09:02:45 PM »
They tried that with the Indians and gave up in 1947 and earned the everlasting resentment of their former subjects. 

"Your Highness, the Indians are revolting!"
"They certainly are!"

It's easier to go around bullying one's own countrymen.

Halfnuts

mobile_bob

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2006, 04:02:30 AM »
"SO what if he calls himself "Mobile Bob" (mo-beel bob, not mobile bob) and sets up in business near you doing the same thing as you?"

i would kiss him full on the mouth, and walk away.... lmao

anyone crazy enough to get into my line of work is brain damaged goods!

tomorrow will be a 30 hour day, (yes saturday) and my back will hurt, my feet will stink, and i am convinced jesus will
no longer love me.

you should have picked a better analogy :) ,,, just kidding, been a long day spending more time with a manufacture that wasted alot of my time telling me they didnt make the part i was working on. only to find out later, ooops i guess we did.
couple that with unbelievable commute times to the job, after the part, back to the job and home again..

no one but a mad man would even think of being a mobile mechanic in this market.

anyway, you point is well taken in re to the fine folks at lister.
although i don't think they have anything to worry about the indians soiling their good name, only someone very uninformed would mistake a listeroid for a true lister.

what do they say?  to be copied is the highest form of flattery?

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

oldnslow

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2006, 03:58:27 PM »
I am working with a Chinese consultant on a product involving vacuum molding plastic. She told me the Chinese government is funding (investing in) almost any manufacturing venture you can think of. Metal, Plastic, components or complex machines etc. The subsidies make mold costs very cheap (for us) and you can get a prototype within 90 days. Just like in India there are lots of guys who take the money and set up shops but later fail because they are unable to deliver. You need the consultant to find the good ones or you can pay for a mold and never get your product. She has an excellent track record. Its kind of exciting to think of what else I want to hand over to her to copy. I considered giving her the horn button from a 55 porsche 356 but......

If you had the funds to ship them a Lister, they will quote you a copy price. That's really putting the cart before the horse. No one really knows what the potential is to sell a knockoff Lister. Many of us have already thought about it to some degree.  I wouldn't pretend to know jack about really doing it.
Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

cujet

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2006, 10:22:41 PM »
I just checked. The patent for the Lister CS ran out 87 years ago :)

No worries!
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Halfnuts

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Re: Mr. Lister is back
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2006, 10:03:15 PM »
Patents are one thing.  Trademarks are another. 
They're trying to protect their name; their reputation.
Imagine if someone found an Indian Lister clone and didn't understand the "clone" concept.
It might reflect badly on Lister's reputation.  I think that's what this is really about.

Halfnuts