Puppeteer

Author Topic: Air bubbles coming into colling water?  (Read 15102 times)

xyzer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1058
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2013, 01:29:53 AM »
Gordon,
You said bubbles in a "clear" line. What size is your line?
Vidhata 6/1 portable
Power Solutions portable 6/1
Z482 KUBOTA

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2013, 01:31:32 AM »
I was wondering the same thing?  It should be fairly big, bigger than I've ever seen clear line.  I think mine is 1 1/2" I.D..
Stan

Tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Green power is good.
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2013, 05:41:40 PM »
My 'roid had bubbles in the tank since new (see the thread tiny bubbles) just a few. After much consternation I finally found that the shelf that the cylinder liner sits on was not machined square to the deck surface. With the head off protrusion measured correct but the liner, as thick as it is, would flex under torque and allow a bit of a leak. The only way to tell for sure is to remove the liner and measure.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Gordon Bryant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2013, 03:17:48 AM »
Thanks Mark for your interest in my problem. I just bought Lister a couple of months ago. It has not been running for quite a number of years. It came from a Scotland Sheep farm.
I had to free up the governor and clean out the fuel gum in the lines, but we got it running. I am not using the 50hz generator that came with the unit. I have put a 1800 rpm Lima generator head on it. It's been working, giving me about 3,200kw. But now we noticed the air bubbles. The syphon seems to work just fine. I don't have any dips in the line. I should be getting my head gasket by the end of the week, then I will take the head off. Will let every one know what I find.

Thanks,
Gordon

Bottleveg

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2013, 09:30:10 AM »
Thanks Mark for your interest in my problem. I just bought Lister a couple of months ago. It has not been running for quite a number of years. It came from a Scotland Sheep farm.
I had to free up the governor and clean out the fuel gum in the lines, but we got it running. I am not using the 50hz generator that came with the unit. I have put a 1800 rpm Lima generator head on it. It's been working, giving me about 3,200kw. But now we noticed the air bubbles. The syphon seems to work just fine. I don't have any dips in the line. I should be getting my head gasket by the end of the week, then I will take the head off. Will let every one know what I find.

Thanks,
Gordon

Hi Gordon,
Did you free up the wheel on the inside governor arm too? These often stick, when the engine is not used for a while, and a flat forms on the wheel.
Well worth removing the cylinder doors and flushing out any debris.
Water outlet ports are 1” or 28mm in new money.
   Mark.

Gordon Bryant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2013, 04:50:06 AM »
Hello to all, and thanks for all your input. Today I received my head gasket in the mail, so I removed the head and what I found was NO cracks in the head, Thank the Lord!! The head gasket showed signs of ''plow by''. It looked obvious to me that my problem was just a head gasket. However, I noticed something in my inspection of the cylinder wall. At the top of the cylinder on one side, about 1'' down from top dead center is an area that doesn't look right. It appears that this area is out of round to the rest of the cylinder. When the rings come up they bridge over this spot. It is discolored from the rest the cylinder walls. My concern is loss of compression in this area. I'm not sure of what to do. Is there a lining that can be replaced along with new rings. Maybe I can get a picture of this tomorrow and show yall, but I'm not sure how to down load it to this forum? ???

Gordon.

Gordon Bryant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2013, 05:11:34 AM »
It's me again, The lining I am referring to is sometimes called  "sleeves". Does it have replacable sleeves or do I have to replace the entire cylinder and water jacket?

Also, for those who asked, I am using a 1" clear vinyl tube for water lines to my cooling tank. It works well.


Gordon

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2013, 06:20:59 AM »
.... Also, for those who asked, I am using a 1" clear vinyl tube for water lines to my cooling tank. It works well

Until the line gets up to about 195F, and turns soft and mushy, then it lets all the water out through a hole.  They have published tables of what vinyl is good to.
[Maximum operating temperature 125 degrees F]

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2013, 07:53:55 AM »
Your original CS does not use a cylinder sleeve. The entire cylinder block is either bored or replaced to recondition the machine. All of the Indian replacement parts are readily available from Kansas and also East Coast I believe. Post a picture of your bore anomaly and we can give you some feedback regarding how much of a problem it might be.

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

Bottleveg

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2013, 09:05:31 AM »
Hello to all, and thanks for all your input. Today I received my head gasket in the mail, so I removed the head and what I found was NO cracks in the head, Thank the Lord!! The head gasket showed signs of ''plow by''. It looked obvious to me that my problem was just a head gasket. However, I noticed something in my inspection of the cylinder wall. At the top of the cylinder on one side, about 1'' down from top dead center is an area that doesn't look right. It appears that this area is out of round to the rest of the cylinder. When the rings come up they bridge over this spot. It is discolored from the rest the cylinder walls. My concern is loss of compression in this area. I'm not sure of what to do. Is there a lining that can be replaced along with new rings. Maybe I can get a picture of this tomorrow and show yall, but I'm not sure how to down load it to this forum? ???

Gordon.

I’m guessing your 6/1 has a chromed bore and what you’re seeing is an area, near the exhaust port, where the chrome has worn through?
Your options are, as Dieselman says, re-bore and fit new piston and chrome rings or fit a new cylinder.
    Mark.

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2013, 03:11:19 PM »
Gordon.....My Dursley Lister (6/1) has exactly the same "wear" mark on the cylinder, about an inch down and a couple of inches wide in an oval shape.  The diesel mechanic I consulted here who has worked with these forever, told me that the compression would be barely affected as most of the compression rings are below this area when critical pressure is placed on the head of the piston.  He told me many Listers have this characteristic and  not to worry about it because the engine would outlive me.
Stan

Gordon Bryant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2013, 09:03:54 PM »
[img]So from what I'm gathering is, it may be ok to just keep running it just like it is, without the fear of losing compression. If I was to bore it out, wouldn't that remove the chrome lining?
I saw on e-bay that there is a company in India that sells new cylinders and or aluminum pistons with .060 over rings. Is it safe to buy parts from India? Do the cylinders from India have chrome linings also? I have to think about what to do here, because I got it all apart and I really don't know how much wear is on this engine. I'm thinking while I got it apart to go ahead and fix this issue and put new piston and rings in it. Is there an easy way to tell how much wear is on the rings?

How do I put a picture, for all to see, on this forum?


I will also put on a different tube than vinyl for my cooling hose. Thanks for the warning.

dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2013, 09:32:23 PM »
The original chrome bores can be restored in some cases, but the cost is prohibitive. I have not found a successful replacement product for the "Listard" process chrome bores.

The Indian product with plain iron bores is fine when used with the properly matching rings and it is cost effective. It is also possible to get a sleeved cylinder or machine your old part for acceptance of a sleeve. Again, machining costs can push the project costs out of range for most people.

You can visually inspect old rings for uneven or excessive wear... check ring end-gaps in the bore, excessive gap equals excessive wear. Check the ring gap in a low portion of the bore so you can tell the difference between the cylinder wear and the actual ring wear. The chromed bore will readily show you where there is any cylinder wear because the plating is quite thin.

The Indian replacement parts are readily available from a number of sources and are not that expensive... get some new parts and compare with your old ones.

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

Tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Green power is good.
    • View Profile
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2013, 09:37:06 PM »
Good practical advice there for checking ring and bore wear.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Air bubbles coming into colling water?
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2013, 02:46:16 PM »
Just remember the "matching" concept for changing from a chrome bore to an iron bore means that you have to change from iron rings to chrome rings.  You can't have iron rings in an iron bore , or chrome rings in a chrome bore on these engines, the bore and rings have to be different metals.  One of them has to wear more than the other or you won't get the proper amount of compression in a chrome/chrome setup, and extreme wear in an iron/iron setup.

I, too have looked into boring my cylinder out and replating it with chrome, but the replating guys just look at you like you're on meth when you describe the "listard" replating process and shrug and say they aren't set up for that kind of thing whatever it is you're describing.
Stan