Help for 6/1 foundation

[LvDsl]

I have purchased a 6/1 and need to pour a foundation.  I'm going to pour at least a cubic yard of concrete and then bolt a rigid i-beam setup to that to hold the diesel and genhead (similar to what I have seen many of you do).  The ground is very wet with sand/silt/wetlands soil in it so I will probably go much heavier to make up for the bad load-bearing soil.

The question is this:
On my site, the best location is the small 100 sq ft bldg I use to house my well pump which has a shallow well about 3' away from the outside corner.  My electrician suggested I pour a pad next to the building and then construct a lean to to provide shelter for the 6/1.  However, is it possible to pour a pad with sufficient drainage to prevent contamination of my well by oil/diesel?  What if I am really careful to catch all drips?  Is this a bad idea?  Would you recommend sealing the concrete slab?  I could place the 6/1 inside the bldg but there is not enough clearance to work on the 6/1 and the floor is not nearly sufficient to support the load/vibration.

The reason we want to use this spot is this is where the main feed for the property is and the first thing I want to power on the property is this well pump.

Thanks for any and all help, I love your site!

[potter]

If my well was close I would incoperate a pan under the engine to catch any leaks . Also under the fuel tank with a drain to a large enough holding tank to hold the contents of the tank.

[Horsepoor]

I assure you there will be fuel and oil dripping down from time to time and collecting under the engine. It’s inevitable; it’s in the DNA of a listeroid and/or the owner.  I poured 2 ½ cubic yards of fiber mesh concrete onto a 5/8 inch steel rebar reinforced frame to achieve a 12 inch thick pad on an 8 X 8 foot engine shed. I haven’t regretted the extra concrete, rebar or time spent. I recommend you consider overkill in your foundation design to ensure a trouble future.  As for sealing the concrete, that’s easy, numerous products available once the massive pad is down.

[BruceM]

+1 on Horsepoor's suggestion-  design  the fuel containment into the concrete floor pour, and then seal it with epoxy.

[bandmiller2]

I would pour your slab and leave a berm around the outer edge high enough to contain any possible spill volume,then seal as suggested. Frank C.

[Tom]

+1 on the thick pad with a berm/curb around it to capture any spills. If you want to get fancy, slope the bottom into a drain into a buried plastic 55 gal drum. That way if a big spill happens you can drain the drum.

[LowGear]

KISS



LowGear

[dieselgman]

While concrete is normally somewhat porous, the oil and dirt will tend to make its own seal and not penetrate very far through a slab or pad. I would think the biggest risk to your groundwater will be the fuel and potential for leakage there is significant. We generally use sheetmetal drip pans under our engines/gensets for ease of cleanup and mess containment but fuel containment is another matter... engine room fires can fairly quickly run out of control and with the additional risk to your well water in the case of a spill I would think carefully about location and the relative ease of installing copper and conduit for a somewhat more remote install.

Also +1 on the dike or berm containment suggestions.

Here is a picture of the engine room mess from one of our school installations I was on the other day- (Alaska bush). The newer high-end buildings for the purpose have steel floors and walls for complete containment.



dieselgman

[dieselgman]

You might notice something else in the generator installation photo... the larger sets are spring mounted. The four steel blocks you see on the floor are spring isolators that reduce vibration transference into the concrete. The engine generators are mounted to steel skids that set atop the spring blocks, effective and secure, minimal vibrations in the floor.

I have not seen anyone try these with a Lister setup. Perhaps because a fine level of balance IS required to keep the engine from rocking and bouncing, and perhaps a large single just generates too much cyclic torque variation for a flexible system like this. It would be interesting to experiment with it though.

dieselgman

[LvDsl]

I really like the idea of pouring a lip into the slab that will contain a large volume of oil/diesel.  That is a fantastic idea!  As long as I pour it all at once I should have a really good boundary.  Plus I have some experience with the various sealing agents for concrete that would really minimize any absorption of fluids.

About moving the location.  I have an old existing slab across the driveway from this small building that houses my well.  Placing it against this slab (soon to be a woodshed) would allow a lean-to again and give me 45' of separation with grade sloping away from the driveway so surface spillage would flow into a drainage ditch and then down the road (and away from my well).

The driveway is currently grass in this location so trenching in and running 3" conduit wouldn't cost too much.  Although I am not looking forward to running 50amp electrical wiring...

[toydiesel01]

I have my motor and generator mounted on 1 frame.  I mounted the frame to special vibration dampers ( I purchased from a special vigration isolation company for very little money)bolted to the cement floor. To absorb all the vibration and thumping the total frame can move 1 inch up and down.  This I see when first starting and also when shutting it down This has been working very well for 4 years.  There is no rocking side to side  It does not shake any thing unlike before when the frame was bolted down to the cement(which is 2 feet thick and rebar ) directly and I was shaking my hole neiborhood. Oh the engin is a 16/1 thumper.

[dieselgman]

Do you have additional posts concerning your 16/1? Any technical details on it?

dieselgman

[fabricator]

I really don't understand the need for huge chunks of concrete, my slab is eight inches thick with regular concrete screen in it, my frame is eight inch square steel tube with half inch plate on the top, the frame is setting on four rubber vibration isolators from McMaster Carr, I think they are rated at like 900 lbs each and my 8/1 is happy as a clam.
The trick is to tame the engine with a good balance job, then they don't need five tons of concrete.

[Horsepoor]

Respectfully, you will learn the lessons of large mass vertical movements like the rest of us and come to know the reasons for having several tons of concrete despite vibration isolators. I have a tea shirt and now my engine sits upon an 8 x 8 one foot plus thick slab with 5/8 inch  rebar and fiber concrete on the pour. The engine is balanced and lives a very happy life and so do I. In my opinion, a one foot thick slab is a minimum. Finding it a little hard to type without spelling mistakes after my second pitcher of beer in my favorite bar.

[sailawayrb]

Respectfully, if you know what you are doing, you don't need any concrete at all.  If interested, you can find an Isolation Stand Design Calculator here:

http://www.borstengineeringconstruction.com/Calculators.html

Please be sure to read the Calculator Instructions carefully before using it.

Bob B.